Best way to EQ an entire band?

[ga_edwards]

Originally Posted by SwamiRob

Where's the guy who started this thing gone? Anyway regarding his 2 guitar situation I'm guessing with it being a rock band the 2 guitars (regardless of how well EQed) don't have the most complementary distortion or overdrive. Bad drive ruins alot of rock mixes and it's well worth sorting out, one particular problem seems to be people thinking they can get the chuggiest metal tone on earth out of their MG series Marshall, never happens and isn't going to happen with gear that isn't designed to do so. Cranking your gain to try and get loads of distortion and really forcing it, sounds as bad as trying to EQ an SWR rig to sound like an Ampeg, it's not gonna happen and trying is gonna make you sound even worse.

Typically in a two guitar line up, it often works if they play different guitars. Maybe a single coil guitar such as a strat or tele, and humbucker such as a les paul. They'll each immediately carve our their own area of the spectrum.

A good twin guitar line up with also arrange their guitar parts so they aren't playing the same thing, They'll use different voicings for chords for example. One playing open chords, one playing barre chords higher up the neck.

There's a lot more to mixing 2 guitars than just eqing! Hey I've even seen some guitarists use to amps to alleviate the spectrum problems. Perhaps a Boogie for chugging rhythm parts, and a cleaner Marshall to punch through for leads. (Yes, a lot of guitarists don't seem to realise cleaner tones punch through more than high gain dirty tones)

(There are of course exceptions to the rule, such as Thin Lizzy. But they were going for harmony lines, yet you can still distinguish between the 2 guitarists tones).

[Stumbo]

A few previous TB threads on the topic:
Learn live sound mixing
Frequency ranges of band instruments
EQ primer (all instruments)
FOH vs. on-stage sound

[SwamiRob]

Originally Posted by ga_edwards

Typically in a two guitar line up, it often works if they play different guitars. Maybe a single coil guitar such as a strat or tele, and humbucker such as a les paul. They'll each immediately carve our their own area of the spectrum.

A good twin guitar line up with also arrange their guitar parts so they aren't playing the same thing, They'll use different voicings for chords for example. One playing open chords, one playing barre chords higher up the neck.

There's a lot more to mixing 2 guitars than just eqing! Hey I've even seen some guitarists use to amps to alleviate the spectrum problems. Perhaps a Boogie for chugging rhythm parts, and a cleaner Marshall to punch through for leads. (Yes, a lot of guitarists don't seem to realise cleaner tones punch through more than high gain dirty tones)

(There are of course exceptions to the rule, such as Thin Lizzy. But they were going for harmony lines, yet you can still distinguish between the 2 guitarists tones).

Those different amp types will have different EQ contours which could count as a form of EQing if you really wanted to look at it though.

The album I just recorded the guy we recorded with got both our guitarists to use a mustang that one of them owned cos he couldn't get a decent palm muting sound out of the SG with the amps we had in the studio. One of the guys played the Mustang through a Laney amp into a Marshall mode 4 cab, and the other through a Fender Deluxe and the Mesa single rectifier that was in the studio through the mode 4 cab for some bottom end. The 2 sounded mint together, and considering they were played with the same guitar there was plenty of contrast.

Not always sure about the 2 guitar part thing either. When it comes to rhythm stuff that kinda thing can get a bit messy sometimes, sometimes that approach works very well but others it can make things sound like more of a mess, thats in a heavy rock context anyway.

[spiritofcliff]

I agree with most of what's been said here but I still might get stoned for this post.

Well actually I've had good luck a) playing in a 3 piece where you don't have to fight as much for tone space - still have to take care to have a good bass tone live that fits with the mix. And b) cutting back the amp clutter on stage, going with Pod XT Live's into PA gear.

So obviously I see some need for frequency slotting but is there a possibility of overdoing it? Jumping blindly on the frequency slotting band wagon and missing some of the effect you can achieve with a little overlap in places? Why else would orchestra's have 5 or more Cello's, 5 or more Violin's etc... (ok for volume originally being one reason)

I've been a sound man as well and have found there are times when the sound is richer with a bit of overlap between the guitar and the vocals (clean high guitar, alto/tenor vocals) - I know this isn't in the coveted muddy mid range - but it illustrates the point.. there's this "don't touch his frequency" law being applied to EVERYTHING in the whole spectrum but isn't there a time and a place to overlap a bit?

I've mixed bands with 2-3 guitars where some tunes are going for that power chord wall of sound feat with lead, rhythm and bass all playing the same riff. The guitars sometimes definitely overlap but the mix was good enough that it made them sound "thick" and not muddy.

So in professional terms, am I right? Is frequency slotting a golden "guideline" that has certain times the rule should be bent a little to achieve certain sounds and feelings in the music? Or is it an end all be all policy that must be adhered to OR ELSE!?

One song I'm recorded on has some particularly high bass along side some particularly low guitar... and it sounds great. Versus those who tell bass players they'll cut their strings if they play anything above the 7th fret. (Heard a guy actually say that, not to me thankfully)

So sue me... I have great tone.

[TimmyP]

Originally Posted by spiritofcliff

I agree with most of what's been said here but I still might get stoned for this post.

Well actually I've had good luck a) playing in a 3 piece where you don't have to fight as much for tone space - still have to take care to have a good bass tone live that fits with the mix. And b) cutting back the amp clutter on stage, going with Pod XT Live's into PA gear.

So obviously I see some need for frequency slotting but is there a possibility of overdoing it? Jumping blindly on the frequency slotting band wagon and missing some of the effect you can achieve with a little overlap in places? Why else would orchestra's have 5 or more Cello's, 5 or more Violin's etc... (ok for volume originally being one reason)

I've been a sound man as well and have found there are times when the sound is richer with a bit of overlap between the guitar and the vocals (clean high guitar, alto/tenor vocals) - I know this isn't in the coveted muddy mid range - but it illustrates the point.. there's this "don't touch his frequency" law being applied to EVERYTHING in the whole spectrum but isn't there a time and a place to overlap a bit?

I've mixed bands with 2-3 guitars where some tunes are going for that power chord wall of sound feat with lead, rhythm and bass all playing the same riff. The guitars sometimes definitely overlap but the mix was good enough that it made them sound "thick" and not muddy.

So in professional terms, am I right? Is frequency slotting a golden "guideline" that has certain times the rule should be bent a little to achieve certain sounds and feelings in the music? Or is it an end all be all policy that must be adhered to OR ELSE!?

One song I'm recorded on has some particularly high bass along side some particularly low guitar... and it sounds great. Versus those who tell bass players they'll cut their strings if they play anything above the 7th fret. (Heard a guy actually say that, not to me thankfully)

So sue me... I have great tone.

No disagreement.

Every instrument covers a very wide frequency range. "Frequency slotting" is merely one of a number of methods that a mixperson can use to build a mix that works. I've heard a number of mixes in which things were not done the way I would do them, but the mix worked - the quality of the compositions and the talent of the music came through well, making it possible to respond to and enjoy the tunes. (The only method that nearly always irks me is the unnecessary high passing of those instruments that have output at the bottom of the spectrum.)

[spiritofcliff]

Originally Posted by TimmyP

No disagreement.

(The only method that nearly always irks me is the unnecessary high passing of those instruments that have output at the bottom of the spectrum.)

lol, good reply. I can agree with you on that as well. If I wanted a higher tone with my bass but still wanted to play a bass I'd put higher strings on it.

For example: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aZH99...eature=channel That's what this guy does.

Otherwise 24 frets does me just fine.