Break Music Players

[KeithAlanK]

My business partner and I operate 2 bands right now, and have to provide music for the breaks about 60% of the time. I play them through our system straight into 2 channels of our Mackie Onyx 24 channel mixer.
We're talking about 2 mix CDs per band to match the different clubs, and new ones every 6 months or so. 8 total per year at the most, but more like 6 from my experience.

My old Sony portable CD player finally died a few months back, and I never really liked the sound through it's headphone jack anyway. Always wanted to go back to the quality of a true Line level output, but it was small and convenient. IF I kept the output level at a certain point it wasn't the end of the world, but nowhere near perfection.
Replaced it for a few weeks with a 20 year old Realistic (my first CD player) that was too succeptible to skipping and was also very slow to respond when you wanted it to start or skip songs.
However, it had a line-level output that sounded much better than the newer Sony's headphone-out.

Then I tried various mp3 players, from a SanDisk Sansa to an iPod etc.
Headphone output still sounded grungy and nasty.
Why does anyone expect a signal that drives headphones to sound decent when plugged into a line-level input? They are totally different types.

So, for a few shows I brought my full-size Sony home DVD player, and all I can say is Wow!!
Fast response to commands, bump-proof, plays anything including bad home-burns with scratches, and mp3s on CD.
A nice hot Line-Out, and even a remote!
Also, operates on AC power so no batteries/recharging or wall-wart transformers.

Problem Solved?
I wish!

My "boss" wants to use an mp3 player so he doesn't have to burn a few discs a year and can store all the playlists for the various clubs in one unit.
Great for him (and I see his point) but I don't know of a single mp3 player with line-outs, so the sound quality is going to suffer.
We could buy a good compact DVD player tomorrow for about half of last night's tip-jar cash in my pocket right now.
It would fill less than 1 rackspace so there's room for my phone and smokes next to it, and kick butt in every other way except convenience for him.

My questions:
1: Are there ANY mp3 players with line-level outputs, and how much do they cost?
2: What would you prefer, if it was your job to set-up and operate the break music system?

Thanks--I appreciate any and all thoughts on this.

[lowfreq33]

Ok, we do break music, from an iPod into the RCA inputs on channels 19/20 (stereo channel). It's break music. Don't sweat it so much. Nobody cares if Katy Perry doesn't sound pristine.

[groove pump]

We do the same thing with our little powered Mackie. We even had some oh-my-God gorgeous girls playing their own break music at a recent gig with their own iPod. I just had to sit on the mixer to keep the level right for the room... and enjoy the scenery. Lots of oh-so-happy ladies dancing it up to that pop cheeze that my band doesn't do.

I'm actually hoping that we can do this some more in the future - BEST BREAK EVER!!! I didn't think to land any phone numbers for being so accommodating like this, but it might work in my favor with summer on the way!

[pasta4lnch]

Originally Posted by KeithAlanK

My questions:
1: Are there ANY mp3 players with line-level outputs, and how much do they cost?
2: What would you prefer, if it was your job to set-up and operate the break music system?

Thanks--I appreciate any and all thoughts on this.

what about something like this?

[rekesbass]

where I play, the bar owners are most happy when people are pumping money into the jukebox during breaks..any gig that requires break music to be supplied by the band, we use any mp3 player and make the best of it. content of the break music is more important than quality...don't over think it..

[DRafalske]

Originally Posted by lowfreq33

Ok, we do break music, from an iPod into the RCA inputs on channels 19/20 (stereo channel). It's break music. Don't sweat it so much. Nobody cares if Katy Perry doesn't sound pristine.

^ This. Not the way I'd word it, but I gotta agree.

D

[MNAirHead]

I use stick (no cord - direct) mp3 players... they're labelled with the genre..... I beat mix all of the songs together (crossfade) this ensures no mixup.s

I NEVER use rechargeable gadgets.. tooo risky.

For break music it doesn't have to be pristine.

[Ryan L.]

We just use a regular MP3 player into the ST2 input of my A&H MixWizard. Hell, on a couple occasions, I've used my Motorola Droid as our break music player.

We keep our break music at level low enough so that people can carry on conversations between sets. And we're much more concerned with the sound of the band itself than the sound of the break music.

[KeithAlanK]

I'm surprised that nobody seems concerned with high quality sound for the breaks.
Since I also use it to EQ the system before soundcheck, I want it to sound great at a level equal to the band, and have an accurate frequency response. This is why I liked the DVD player.
Apple's "Composite AV Cable" looks like our best choice. Will also want an AC/USB thingy to keep it charged. That's around $70.

[Stinsok]

I use an iPod into a split cable (uses 2 channel inputs.) I've never been happy with the way it sounds.

[KeithAlanK]

Originally Posted by Stinsok

I use an iPod into a split cable (uses 2 channel inputs.) I've never been happy with the way it sounds.

The composite cable I mentioned plugs into the big multipin connector and supposedly accesses a true line level signal. For that much money ($39) it had better or I'll be returning it.
It has stereo RCA's plus another for video, and a USB connector for charging if you have the $29 AC/USB adapter.



(Don't want to use a dock since it puts the iPod on top of my racks where anybody could just grab it, or it could get knocked over. Using the cable, I can stash it under the mixer's cover).

[testing1two]

I use an iPod with the breakout cable from the multi-pin. It's the only way to go. Also, I never use MP3 files through PA systems. Call me an elitist but the larger the PA, the worse MP3s sound.

[KeithAlanK]

Originally Posted by testing1two

I never use MP3 files through PA systems.

Which file format do you use?
I only want the best.
I don't own any Apple products yet, so I don't really know what file types they use--was just using mp3 as a generic term like Kleenex. My partner is going to buy an iPod this week and I'll be getting the cables and charger. Batteries suck for live gigs.

Thanks for any "elitist" advice you can offer testing1two, because this "good enough" stuff doesn't cut it when I'm handling the very top acts in one of the biggest cities in the US.

[hbarcat]

Originally Posted by KeithAlanK

I'm surprised that nobody seems concerned with high quality sound for the breaks.
Since I also use it to EQ the system before soundcheck, I want it to sound great at a level equal to the band, and have an accurate frequency response. This is why I liked the DVD player.
Apple's "Composite AV Cable" looks like our best choice. Will also want an AC/USB thingy to keep it charged. That's around $70.

I guess I'm the only one who agrees with you because I'm also annoyed by the crap sound of MP3's used for break music. I always play my own (trusted to be defect and scratch free) mix CD's from a portable player with an AC adapter. We never need to use a thumb drive so it doesn't really come up. I suppose if we needed to we could plug in a laptop but that would be kind of a pain in the butt.

[Munjibunga]

I use this. C'mon, on your breaks, does the room go quiet so the audience can hear the concert of your break music? There isn't a single person paying attention to it. Even if someone were listening, they wouldn't be able to discern the difference in fidelity over the din of crowd noise. MP3s are fine.

[trevcda]

I've got one of these in three different FOH racks:
http://www.numark.com/idec
Line level output, large controls, charges, has a usb jack for updating on the fly and even has record inputs. Controls are a pain if you're scrolling through a large list, but for navagating playlists it's fine.

[Munjibunga]

Also, you can put full-fidelity .wav files in an iPod if you really believe it makes that much of a difference.

[jaywa]

In my former band we had a CD player in our FOH rack and we also had the guitarist's iPod playing MP3s on random rotation. We would up using the iPod a lot more than the CD player because it was easier and gave us a much bigger selection of tunes... but in my personal opinion the sound quality out of the iPod sucked total azz.

Maybe it doesn't matter to some people if the break music sounds like garbage but it matters to me. And MP3s through a good P.A. sound terrible.

OTOH, crappy low-fi break music does make your band sound that much better by comparison.

[MNAirHead]

"lofi makes your band sound better" is the truth.

We normally compress the sound.

The louder the band is, the more your audience will use breaks to talk with their friends.

I once had a live producer comment to "squish compress" bumper music... .. then sound check with full spectrum classical.

His point was that you don't want to drop the cadence of the night.. bumper music is just to keep a vibe going - not entertain the troops.

----

That being said, I also suggest putting a line in your agreement that you should be in control of the bumper music. Few things bite like a pissed off patron who dropped $5 into a jukebox (30 seconds before you go on)... not good for the venue.. not good for the customer.

[jaywa]

That brings up an interesting follow-up question of how loud the break music should be relative to the live band.

I've been to club shows where the break music is just killing everyone with volume and as an audience member it pisses me off. When I go to a club I generally don't talk much to my friends while the band is playing (unless the band is really bad), and I do my conversation during the breaks. It's nice not to have to be shouting that whole time. Also, excessive break music volume can make it a lot harder for the wait staff and bartenders to do their jobs and that's important to consider since breaks are when they sell a lot of booze (or are supposed to be, anyway).

OTOH you don't want to run the break music too quiet or else when the band comes back on people will think the band is too loud. Especially if you're playing a venue where mgmt is sensitive to volume already.

My personal preference and practice is to never run break music hotter than 80% of the live mix. Over the course of the night I may cheat the break music volume up a bit (as I do the FOH), but the ratio stays the same.