Bring your own monitor?

bannerman · #1 12-06-2010, 12:09 PM

Our vocalist frequently has a hard time hearing himself in some of the lousy venues we play. We're pretty loud on stage and the house monitors are poorly placed and/or don't work well. Feed back before they are even close to the volume we need. Lowering the stage volume isn't really an option for us. I'm thinking we could maybe just get an active wedge for him and run our own monitor before we go into the PA. Is there a way we can hook that up independent of the house PA? Is there a little mixer we could get that would allow us to run the monitor and also pass through to the PA? Seems like this would be a frequently asked question, but my initial searching did not enlighten me.

pasta4lnch · #2 12-06-2010, 12:11 PM

what about something like this? a few companies make 'em. the mic goes "thru" it so no external mixer needed and he gets plenty of himself . . .

bannerman · #3 12-06-2010, 12:33 PM

Dude, that's a brilliant product. I wonder why I've never seen anything like it before. I'll definitely look into that. Thanks!

73jbass · #4 12-06-2010, 12:41 PM

In ear monitors are the only way to go. I started using them about a month ago,and I'm never going back. More expensive,but worth every penny.

WayneP · #5 12-07-2010, 07:46 AM

We’ve had a similar problem in the past, not because of a volume issue but because our singer needed a dedicated monitor with no other vocals in it. It was pretty easy with a small project mixer and an active monitor: Plug her mic into the project mixer, and the active monitor to the mixer’s main output.

To take care of getting her mic to the house, we sent a feed from the mixer’s AUX pre-fade output to the house snake. Naturally, this needs to be a balanced signal, so your project mixer needs balanced AUX sends, and you’ll need a TRS/XLR cable.

When it’s all set up, you have control of the dedicated monitor’s level and EQ, and the house system has the straight feed it needs. You could even add a parametric EQ to the dedicated monitor for feedback control.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

dug dog · #6 12-07-2010, 08:34 AM

I'd not seen that TC Helicon product before and, I agree, it looks pretty slick. It also looks like it's been discontinued.

dug dog · #7 12-07-2010, 08:39 AM

Musician's Friend still has the VSM-200XT. $200.

mowburger · #8 12-07-2010, 09:53 AM

A powered monitor is something every singer should own, not only are they not relying on a soundguy, they will have a consistant sound on ANY stage they play, in ANY venue.

And lets face it how much money and time does everyone else in the band spend to get good gear and a good sound?

The least a lead singer could do is buy thier own vox monitor!

+the bass player (me) will prob end up transporting and setting it up for them anyway!

WJGreer · #9 12-07-2010, 10:00 AM

I owned a little powered Mackie monitor for a while for that reason. If we were using our own PA or if the soundman was willing, I could run a lead from the snake and pull the monitor mix they provided. Or I could plug the mic directly into the monitor and run a pass-through out to the snake.

It was mountable on my mic stand underneath my microphone, so a little volume went a long way. It was brilliant and worked very well - but it added 10 or 15 minutes to my setup and tear-down, so I stopped using it and eventually sold it. If you can tolerate the extra overhead though, it did do the trick.

LowDown Hal · #10 12-07-2010, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJGreer

I owned a little powered Mackie monitor for a while for that reason. If we were using our own PA or if the soundman was willing, I could run a lead from the snake and pull the monitor mix they provided. Or I could plug the mic directly into the monitor and run a pass-through out to the snake.

It was mountable on my mic stand underneath my microphone, so a little volume went a long way. It was brilliant and worked very well - but it added 10 or 15 minutes to my setup and tear-down, so I stopped using it and eventually sold it. If you can tolerate the extra overhead though, it did do the trick.

like this one ?
http://www.mackie.com/products/srm150/

WJGreer · #11 12-07-2010, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LowDown Hal

like this one ?
http://www.mackie.com/products/srm150/

Yep, that's the one.

timbledum · #12 12-07-2010, 10:31 AM

Most of the time when singers can't hear them selves and you talk to the sound guy, you find that they are trying to push them as far as they'll go but feedback or stage noise (i.e. cymbals going through the vocal mike then getting re-amplified through the monitor) limits how hard the monitor will go. Bands bringing their own monitors may aggravate the problem while taking the control out of the soundguys hands in some situations. Of course in some situations the problem will be a lack of gear from the venue, in which case a band-owned monitor will be justified, but a more general solution is IEM.

WJGreer · #13 12-07-2010, 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timbledum

Most of the time when singers can't hear them selves and you talk to the sound guy, you find that they are trying to push them as far as they'll go but feedback or stage noise (i.e. cymbals going through the vocal mike then getting re-amplified through the monitor) limits how hard the monitor will go. Bands bringing their own monitors may aggravate the problem while taking the control out of the soundguys hands in some situations. Of course in some situations the problem will be a lack of gear from the venue, in which case a band-owned monitor will be justified, but a more general solution is IEM.

In ear monitors are great - they do require an investment across the whole band and a unified approach that everyone agrees upon to handing the monitor mix. And, none of the small tour venues in Colorado we've used have sound teams that have said anything about them, leading me to believe that they wouldn't be able to accommodate them if we did bring them in. IEMs seem like an optimal solution that it seldom available or realistic for the average band.

walker rosewood · #14 12-07-2010, 02:10 PM

Those TC Helicon personal monitor things do look interesting, but... there's probably really good reasons why they were introduced four years ago and nobody's ever heard of them, they're already discontinued, and I've never seen anybody at any level use them.

IEM's are the way to go.

bannerman · #15 12-09-2010, 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WJGreer

In ear monitors are great - they do require an investment across the whole band and a unified approach that everyone agrees upon to handing the monitor mix. And, none of the small tour venues in Colorado we've used have sound teams that have said anything about them, leading me to believe that they wouldn't be able to accommodate them if we did bring them in. IEMs seem like an optimal solution that it seldom available or realistic for the average band.

I've done some work with my friend's band, they use one of these for their IEMs:

http://www.allen-heath.co.uk/us/wz312m.asp

It's pass through. You just run all of your mics/lines to the WZ3 and straight back out to the house snake or whatever. Really slick and does not interfere with house sound at all. Mix it yourself on stage or bring a monitor mix guy.

Kind of overkill for my 3-piece. We just need a bit more vocals on stage than some sound guys can provide us. We don't need anything else in the monitor. An active monitor for the singer makes the most sense to me. Thanks everyone for all of the suggestions!

musicman7722 · #16 12-09-2010, 09:26 PM

big bucks

bannerman · #17 12-10-2010, 09:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walker rosewood

Those TC Helicon personal monitor things do look interesting, but... there's probably really good reasons why they were introduced four years ago and nobody's ever heard of them, they're already discontinued, and I've never seen anybody at any level use them.

IEM's are the way to go.

The old model is just depreciated for a new one. I haven't seen anyone using one of these either, though. Perhaps this lack is partially responsible for the mediocrity of vocals prevalent among small bands in my area :P

IEMs are certainly the cleanest solution, but my band will probably never use them. We enjoy the minor hearing loss inflicted by our amplifiers. While we are not rich, it is not really a question of money- we just want to be live on stage.

Like I said, we've been playing some really lousy venues. Sometimes vocals are the only thing we can mic. At better venues we do not usually have this problem. I think our singer does a great job even when he's having monitor issues, but it really kills the fun factor for him.

SteveC · #18 12-10-2010, 09:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bannerman

Lowering the stage volume isn't really an option for us.

May I ask why? Volume knobs work both ways.

MikeBass · #19 12-10-2010, 09:18 AM

This:
http://www.mackie.com/products/srm450v2/

Those little personal monitors are nice, but for a lead vocalist, a powered "standard" floor wedge is the way to go.

Step away from the little spot monitors (remember the "HotSpot" anyone???).

Still have independent control over their own monitor, but sends a pass thru to the FOH.

crockpot2001 · #20 12-11-2010, 05:29 PM

If you just want to test to see if the singer is comfy with an IEM, try this. http://www.zzounds.com/item--RLLPM50S

I play bass and sing in our band so I'm pretty locked into one spot. Some singers are not inclined to move around much either so having a long headphone extension running up the back of the shirt is not a big deal. If it's not what you want, it's a small investment and could be used in a number of different ways.