Cardioid vocal mic spacing

[dancrocker]

I know this isn't a bass live sound question, but I was hoping someone would be willing to comment.
We use SM58's for vocals in our church band. Is there a rule of thumb as to how far away (side to side) the mics should be from each other to avoid their picking up voices of adjacent singers? The singers in the band are usually positioned such that the mics are a couple of feet apart and this seems to work ok. I just wanted to see if someone thought this was too close.

[MNAirHead]

You should be totally fine.

A bit of this depends on the gain/trim..

In church setings monitor placement (and level) normally causes more issues.

[meRTKendrew]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

You should be totally fine.

A bit of this depends on the gain/trim..

In church setings monitor placement (and level) normally causes more issues.

I completely agree, when mixing at churches, I've had many more problems with singers being too close to their monitors, or wanting their monitors too loud and causing feedback than any bleed problems from another singer.



-RTK

[dancrocker]

Thanks for the replies. I figured the spacing was probably ok. I'm not noticing any feedback issues with monitors. Sometimes the mix tends to be muddy when we have lots of singers (6 to 8). But, I think this is probably due to my inability to mix this many voices effectively.

[LightGroove]

I guess you could jump up to a super card pattern and have a more direct pattern to the singer..avoiding extra off axis noise..you may also consider a noise gate of sorts... the cheap option...move the singers

[MNAirHead]

some mikes are clearer and easier to eq/mix etc than others.

[TimmyP]

Originally Posted by dancrocker

Thanks for the replies. I figured the spacing was probably ok. I'm not noticing any feedback issues with monitors. Sometimes the mix tends to be muddy when we have lots of singers (6 to 8). But, I think this is probably due to my inability to mix this many voices effectively.

Go for a more natural vocal sound, instead of the usual "big & chesty" sound that mics give (owing to the huge low-mid proximity boost).

[RustyAxe]

Rather than have the singers in a straight line, where each singer is 45 degrees off-axis to the nearby mic ... have the mics placed in an arc (with ends closer to the front of the stage) which keeps each singer closer to 90 degrees off-axis and in the null of the cardioid pattern.

The rest, monitor placement, gain, and such, is right on. Less gain on the mic with the singers very close is usually best, but that doesn't always work in church.

[Stumbo]

SM58 have a pretty wide pickup range IME. Try turning off/on each mic in turn to see what each one is picking up by itself.

[MNAirHead]

I was thinking of your thread last night.

We were pushing 10 instrumentalists on the set... full strings etc.... some were omni condenser mikes.. brick room etc.

Had ZERO feedback.. we were all crammed and full spectrum.

----

Then it occured to me.....

Has your church paid $50-75 to have a pro sound company do a spectrum analysis... setup the EQ (and effects/crossover).. then another $20 to put covers over the effects rack?

I can't tell you the number of sanctuaries I go into that have untrained staff using an EQ for tone controls... mikes pointed at bad directions to monitors.. and are clueless of the role of the room EQ (or crossover points).

A small budget from a 3rd party always makes a huge improvement (and solves the church PR issues)

I've obsessed over your challenge for years.... if I can be of service, please feel invited to PM me.

timmy

[modulusman]

In recording you use the 3 to 1 rule. I believe it also applies to live sound here it is explained. http://www.recordingeq.com/articles/321eq.html