Condenser for live bass cab?

lawrence2 · #1 02-08-2011, 09:58 AM

Ok, I want to D.I. and mic my sound on stage, live performance.
So, better sm 57 (clasic) or can be goos with condense AKG C5?
I know, also kick mics are nice, but i prefer mid range one; kick ones I think make too much scoop?
So, will condenser make good or it can take too much other sounds around? And C5 is from 65hz up, while 57 is from 40 hz up.

And, place and distance of mic for live, cab 4x10, no horn?

I know, it was very much allready spoken almost everytinh, but still, any sugestion?

kedo · #2 02-12-2011, 04:12 PM

I would avoid any condensor mic for bass applications. Go with a Shure Beta 52, or a Sennheiser 421. Both of these can be had on CL for cheap and are durable, dependable units.

Placement? listen carefully to all of the drivers in your 4x10". Pick the one that sounds bast, or the one that sounds the least bad. Put the mic 1" off the grill, pointing directly at a point equidistant from the driver dustcap and the edge of the paper (or aluminum or whatever the material is).

There you go. Oh, remember to tighten all the knobs on the mic stand so it doesnt suddenly become impotent mid-song. Not that I've ever experienced anything like that...

TimmyP · #3 02-12-2011, 07:33 PM

The 52 and 421 are as different as chalk and cheese. The 421 is good, but overrated IMHO - a D4 will do about as well. I'd try a PR40.

pasta4lnch · #4 02-12-2011, 07:41 PM

if you're gonna use a DI as well I wouldnt be too concerned w/ a real clean mic w/ a good frequency response. personally I'm a 57 fan - right amount of character to add to a DI signal.

maybe a sm7b might be cool too, though I never tried one on a bass cab . . .

BigMac5 · #5 02-12-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmyP

The 52 and 421 are as different as chalk and cheese. The 421 is good, but overrated IMHO - a D4 will do about as well. I'd try a PR40.

Could you describe the difference between a 421 and a PR40?

kedo · #6 02-12-2011, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmyP

The 52 and 421 are as different as chalk and cheese. The 421 is good, but overrated IMHO - a D4 will do about as well. I'd try a PR40.

I love cheese, and chalk definitely has it's benefits in the right situation.

lawrence2 · #7 02-13-2011, 05:36 AM

... Yeah, I didn't try kick mic's so far - I think if you use just a mic, can be good, cause you need bottom, but I am worrying about mid-range.
So, in combination with a D.I. I will try 57 for now and see; but let's see what the soundguy will say

.
In future I am also interesting in 421, everybody is saying that it is real cool stuff.
But what about the cheaper range: this Audix D4 or SHURE BETA 57 A ??

lawrence2 · #8 02-13-2011, 05:38 AM

And Kedo, thanks for the tips ... and all of you of course.
I am in the begining of the sound-making on the stages; but I hate most of the concerts, cause of the bass sound - I would like to make that diference, when I am on the stage

, I will try to do, what it is in my power. And yes, I know, the most of it, is in my fingers ..

prd004 · #9 02-13-2011, 10:31 AM

I would never recomend a condenser mic for live bass sound, they are great for studio but they are far too sensitive, it will pick up every other instrument on stage, the monitors, the fans etc.

Bass mics like the Beta 52 or AKG D112 are intended for kick drums not bass guitar. I cringe whenever I see a "sound guy" use one of these for bass. All of the mid range frequencies are cut from these types of mics so on a kick drum you only get the lowest of low sub-frequency response for the "woof" of the drum and the hight frequency "snap" of the beater hitting the skin, ALL OF THE MID FREQUENCIES are scooped out, making this an awful bass mic. The mids are what define the bass and allow it to be heard in the mix.

The Sennheiser MD 421 and the EV RE-20 are extremely popular, tried and true mics for bass guitar. Studio legends as well as road workhorses. I prefer the MD 421, because the RE-20 is more expensive and less versatile.

That brings us to the SM57. The only time I ever like a 57 on bass is when it's blended with a DI (you mentioned doing this). It is a good combination, the DI gets the full range fundamental and the 57 accentuates the mids and captures the air/speaker relationship for a good blend.

TimmyP · #10 02-14-2011, 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigMac5

Could you describe the difference between a 421 and a PR40?

PR40's proximity effect is much lower in frequency, making it easier to get good bottom and a more natural low mid.

JimmyM · #11 02-15-2011, 12:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmyP

PR40's proximity effect is much lower in frequency, making it easier to get good bottom and a more natural low mid.

yep. it's possible to blow low end like crazy too, but i've learned to back off the grill by a couple inches and it behaves remarkably like an re20. it goes ridiculously low but it'll stay pretty flat if you do that.

i'll take a 421, though. i use them a lot on the road and they're always great performers.