The delicate art of running the board + playing

threshar · #1 05-24-2011, 11:43 AM

I run sound for the band when we do our own PA (which is nearly all the time). Besides the standard gripes about loading a ton of gear it is starting to wear me down to be constantly worrying about sound and also trying to play decently (This and trying to enjoy myself at the same time).

It is especially annoying when I go out front (I have a wireless) to listen to what is going on then see I need to tweak some knobs then try to figure out when a good time is to do so (since if I stop playing the song loses a ton (caribbean music, bass carries it all)).

More sound check time would be nice but I'm lucky if Ic an get the guys to check for 20 seconds nevermind 5-10 minutes.

Having a real sound guy would be better too but when gigs are already paying crap that would be even less money.

I'm just venting from a gig yesterday thats all.

Anybody else in the same boat? stuck with PA duties + bass?

Some of the guys have said they'd want to learn but when pressed further nothing occurs.

newwavefrank · #2 05-24-2011, 11:56 AM

I play bass, run sound, and sing lead. We really have our sound dialed in though, so even with a short soundcheck, it really doesnt need much tweaking. I do go out front often and listen.

Jimbob Jones · #3 05-24-2011, 12:01 PM

I know the feeling; I've done it a few times. I would hate to do it without at least a 15 minute soundcheck!

You could always show one of the horn section how the desk works, and get him to make the adjustments between his entries. Even if you don't trust his ears, you could still tell him what to change without interrupting your playing.

Marginal Tom · #4 05-24-2011, 12:14 PM

I'm basically in the same boat: bass, PA, mics, monitors and some vocals. The drummer and I come two hours early to set up and then unwind, while the others come in much later after most or all of the work is done. And, of course, we leave in the same order.

On top of all that, I'm a newbie on sound and have impaired hearing.

MrDOS · #5 05-24-2011, 01:35 PM

I did this for 5 years - bass, lead vocals, and sound. It really helps to have veteran players who adjust their volume and mic technique as you go.

As far as most of the tweaks I want to do when out in the audience -- most people would never know the difference.

My advice is to set up consistently, and have fun!

Zooberwerx · #6 05-24-2011, 02:52 PM

Set it and forget it...with the exception of the main sliders. Doing lead vocals, step up to the mic....harmonies, take a step back. Once you set up your mixer / levels, you don't have to "re-invent" it for every subsequent gig.

Riis

RichardCranium · #7 05-24-2011, 03:25 PM

Add a female lead singer that thinks she knows about sound but really doesn't and doesn't think her monitors need to be tweaked during soundcheck (both a wedge and IEM) but spends most of the first set grabbing at knobs to get "her sound" (which she can't describe in any perceivable terms) and you're in my shoes.

D.A.R.K. · #8 05-24-2011, 03:28 PM

It just takes away from the overall quality, because both playing and mixing are something that need 100% attention to be done right. But you gotta do what you gotta do.

BartmanPDX · #9 05-24-2011, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RichardCranium

Add a female lead singer that thinks she knows about sound but really doesn't and doesn't think her monitors need to be tweaked during soundcheck (both a wedge and IEM) but spends most of the first set grabbing at knobs to get "her sound" (which she can't describe in any perceivable terms) and you're in my shoes.

That sounds eerily familiar to what I've dealt with . . .

threshar · #10 05-25-2011, 08:19 AM

well it is generally set & forget - but you still need to tweak because rooms all sound different (and very much so for outdoor gigs)

gmarcus · #11 05-25-2011, 02:19 PM

This is me too. We usually get there early and twiddle knobs for 1/2 hour or so. After that I only touch the knobs if we get feed back. Sometimes a minor tweak between sets. It definitely splits my concentration. In some ways it is good because it forces me to really listen to all of the other instruments.

RichardCranium · #12 05-25-2011, 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gmarcus

This is me too. We usually get there early and twiddle knobs for 1/2 hour or so. After that I only touch the knobs if we get feed back. Sometimes a minor tweak between sets. It definitely splits my concentration. In some ways it is good because it forces me to really listen to all of the other instruments.

That's what I keep trying to tell the band unless it's feeding back or on fire it can wait till a break in the action. Now granted we work hard to make it sound good but at a certain point it's close enough unless you pay $$ and have a dedicated soundman it's not gonna be 'Steely Dan at the Hollywood Bowl' quality as long as the vocals come across and the rest isn't a bowl of mush it'll be ok.

dane22 · #13 05-25-2011, 06:47 PM

Same boat! I spend so much time with the PA, that my bass set up is last minute and rushed. I'm in the process of training our lead singer ( who does not play anything). I've got the system almost idiot-proof. Labels and agood understanding of the system is helpful.

FuzzBoxVoodoo · #14 05-26-2011, 04:06 AM

I labeled the back of the board is about as far as I let anyone else go for PA setup,My biggest frustration is getting a quick half song sound check and then band mates start making adjustments to the board during the gig based on stage/monitor sound not FOH,it drives me nuts trying to explain it to them.

Munjibunga · #15 05-27-2011, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by threshar

I run sound for the band when we do our own PA (which is nearly all the time). Besides the standard gripes about loading a ton of gear it is starting to wear me down to be constantly worrying about sound and also trying to play decently (This and trying to enjoy myself at the same time).

It is especially annoying when I go out front (I have a wireless) to listen to what is going on then see I need to tweak some knobs then try to figure out when a good time is to do so (since if I stop playing the song loses a ton (caribbean music, bass carries it all)).

More sound check time would be nice but I'm lucky if Ic an get the guys to check for 20 seconds nevermind 5-10 minutes.

Having a real sound guy would be better too but when gigs are already paying crap that would be even less money.

I'm just venting from a gig yesterday thats all.

Anybody else in the same boat? stuck with PA duties + bass?

Some of the guys have said they'd want to learn but when pressed further nothing occurs.

I used to do that. Adjust the sound between songs. What I hate is when the band members are expecting me to adjust monitor mix during the song. It ain't happening. I figure it takes about three songs to get the sound right if we don't have a sound check. I don't run the sound now. I love it. My playing has improved 78 percent.

groove pump · #16 05-31-2011, 12:45 PM

No fun when nobody else makes the effort to learn that gear that we all depend on for our shows. One of our gang doesn't even help with the PA load in/out, set up, or break down. Must be nice...

Anyone have some cheese and crackers to go with this whine?

I like the set-and-forget approach, but things rarely remain static through a three set night with my bunch. When someone gets louder, maybe after some liquid inspiration, someone else will want to get louder, too. I guess a sense of humor is among the essentials that include half-decent ears for this sort of stuff.

I actually had someone fill in for me at a show a while ago and because nobody knew the PA unit, it turned out to be a horrible night in terms of their sound. One little button was in the wrong position, so the band had no independent monitor control, just mains. Oddly enough, I didn't feel bad.

threshar · #17 05-31-2011, 12:54 PM

another problematic aspect of "set & forget" is that rooms can sound differently depending on how many people are in. when it is dead and you initially setup it will sound quite a bit different than a packed house. At least, this is my experience.

Medford Bassman · #18 05-31-2011, 02:04 PM

I try to do a set it and forget it thing as well. But I agree, each room is different and require a different EQ settings. Sometimes, different rooms are close so you may not need to major of a EQ tweek.
We try to get to a gig about 2 hours early to set up and get a good soundcheck in. Unfortunately, my bass usually gets taken care of last.
I have a guitard who get pretty self absorbed during set up and it's all about him. as long as his sound is what he wants, (IEM) he's happy.
Plus, I have a drummer who can never give me a consistent kick drum sound. I tell him to hit as hard as he does at the shows. Half way thru the show he's hitting it even harder throwing off the gain, etc.
One bad habit I'm stopping is this nonsense of wanting me to adjust sound during a song. 99% of the time I'm playing throughout the song, so I don't have time to stop just to adjust someone's IEM unless massive feedback. Guitard is the worst offender of this. If his sound isn't "studio" quality, he wants it fixed during a song...uh...to bad so sad. He's gooing to have to wait.

So, I'm with you my brothers and sisters who have to run sound for your bands. Probably why I drink!

Doctor Dirt · #19 05-31-2011, 02:17 PM

In 1995 I brought the band (2 bands) down to a trio with an occasional guest. I ran sound from the drum seat hahahaha!!! Got my settings for my steady outdoor gig (small area) then just backed off the compressor/limitator and crossover for volumes. Everyone sings so they set their own vocals out front and their instruments and then their monitor mixes. Theres NO way I put instruments in the monitors anymore thats taboo. If its a must then an extension cab from the rig placed next to their vocal monitor will do hahahaha!!! My guitar players have been working with me since 1989 and the bass players (3) can mix in and out of both groups since 1990. Everyone has a job to do as far as hauling in the gear and at the end of the night the same system works well. Who ever is unrolling chords is rolloing chords so theres NO bitchin about chords!!! EVERYTHING is on casters, no casters it doesn't come to the gig, DONE!!
Have ALL the fun you can have playing music you don't know when it could stop!! Last year (March 21st) a young man ran a stop sign on a Sunday morning and hurt me for life. My left heel was removed (degloved) and my left tibia was broken clean through below the knee and above the ankle. The blessing if there is one is that my right foot is the kick drum control so my hi-hat work is not quite up to par yet but I'm back playing gigs and I'm working at it. Take nothing for granite in life. I used to cover an old Doctor John tune he covered with Johnny Winter called "Life is Hard / Then You Die" don't cover it for now but I'll add it in down the road. Oh by the way who ever is "turnin knobs" should get a few extra bucks for it, right now my guitarist is handling that gig and the bassists is my roadie, it pays a few bucks extra to work with people who are your Bros. you never know when you really need them. Doctor Dirt

4Mal · #20 05-31-2011, 10:41 PM

When I run sound, I am a sound check nazi. I have most of my folks trained to known what I want and that what I want is for us to sound good. We sorta joke about it .. now. It was a little painful getting here.

I relish those gigs where I'm just playin' the bass and singing though. If I don't have to pack PA, I can bring more basses and it still feels like a vacation!