DI = mud

Floyd Eye · #1 08-10-2011, 07:21 PM

Last night for the second time, my band used a venue's house sound. For the second time my bass sounded muddy and barely audible. We even tipped the sound guy $20 ( FWIW, I do think he tried).

I now absolutely refuse to let anyone DI me. Mic both my cabs or kiss my *** and we'll walk.

I have an RBI, but I am now convinced it is irrelevant. DI sucks period.

MuzikMan · #2 08-10-2011, 07:35 PM

DI does not = mud. Your problem lies elsewhere.

bongomania · #3 08-10-2011, 07:41 PM

The idea that "DI sucks period" is totally laughable. When bass is recorded in the world's finest recording studios, they use a DI.

Either you are using it wrong, or you got a poor-quality DI, or it's the wrong type of DI for your application.

Floyd Eye · #4 08-10-2011, 07:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuzikMan

DI does not = mud. Your problem lies elsewhere.

Why does it sound right when I am not hooked into a sound system? Wouldn't a mic pretty much sound like my rig? When we play the bars my rig sounds awesome, when a soundguy hooks into me it sounds like crap. Where DOES the problem lie?

Floyd Eye · #5 08-10-2011, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bongomania

The idea that "DI sucks period" is totally laughable. When bass is recorded in the world's finest recording studios, they use a DI.

Either you are using it wrong, or you got a poor-quality DI, or it's the wrong type of DI for your application.

As far as I know, I'm not using it at all, some random soundguy is. As I stated earlier I am using an RBI and we play hard rock ( Rage, Tool, etc.)

MuzikMan · #6 08-10-2011, 07:46 PM

Are you using the RBI DI or a separate house DI? Are you sending a pre or post signal? Did you have the same problem at the same venue or two different ones?

bongomania · #7 08-10-2011, 07:47 PM

So wait, you're not using the RBI as a DI? Why not?

And as far as it being the sound guy "using it" and not you, if that's the case then get him on here for us to talk to, since you want no responsibility.

Gearhead17 · #8 08-10-2011, 07:49 PM

On your bass, are you turning the EQ knobs? Is it a passive bass? What brand DI did you plug into? What are you plugging into prior to the DI box?

Floyd Eye · #9 08-10-2011, 07:53 PM

Both times the sound guy walked straight up to my rig and plugged into the back of my SansAmp. The one that says SansAmp on it, not unaffected. So I assume that means I am using the SansAmp as a DI.

It was pretty obvious from the FIRST post that I have no experience ( Well, 2 experiences now) with sound guys hooking up to my rig. It's also pretty obvious that a little advice would be good, but you all can go ahead and be smart asses if you want to. I mean I know you guys have all the freakin' answers and are waaaaay above my pay grade.

Floyd Eye · #10 08-10-2011, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

On your bass, are you turning the EQ knobs? Is it a passive bass? What brand DI did you plug into? What are you plugging into prior to the DI box?

74' Rickenbacker 4001 into a full pedal board into a rackmounted BBE and a SansAmp RBI into a Carvin power amp.

On the fly last night I tried lowering the bass and raising the mid control on the sansamp. Still I got mud from the monitors. The rig sounded the same as it always does, but I didn't want to turn it up louder just so I could hear it. They wouldn't have heard it out front anyway.

The rig sounds just how I want it when I am not hooked into a sound system. Is there something I should be doing differently when I am using house sound?

lowendgenerator · #11 08-10-2011, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Both times the sound guy walked straight up to my rig and plugged into the back of my SansAmp. The one that says SansAmp on it, not unaffected. So I assume that means I am using the SansAmp as a DI.

It was pretty obvious from the FIRST post that I have no experience ( Well, 2 experiences now) with sound guys hooking up to my rig. It's also pretty obvious that a little advice would be good, but you all can go ahead and be smart asses if you want to. I mean I know you guys have all the freakin' answers and are waaaaay above my pay grade.

OK, first thing...Calm down. You aint the first to have a run in with a shatty soundguy. It is the curse of bass players everywhere to suffer at the hands of the FOH engineer.

Secondly, it's not DI'ing that made you suck, and it may not have been the soundmans fault either...Are you using extreme settings on your RBI? Is the bass and gain cranked all the way with no mids? That may sound awesome coming out of your amp, but it sounds like horse-dung at the board.

Miking your cab will sometimes sound like your rig. Depends on the competency of the engineer and the type of microphone. I am often against it live, just because I have a DI, and don't like tripping over mics while I make sweet, sweet love to my rig.

You ARE in the right place, 99% of the time you will find wisdom, insight, and of course, opinions. Welcome, here's your grain of salt.

lowendgenerator · #12 08-10-2011, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

74' Rickenbacker 4001 into a full pedal board into a rackmounted BBE and a SansAmp RBI into a Carvin power amp.

On the fly last night I tried lowering the bass and raising the mid control on the sansamp. Still I got mud from the monitors. The rig sounded the same as it always does, but I didn't want to turn it up louder just so I could hear it. They wouldn't have heard it out front anyway.

The rig sounds just how I want it when I am not hooked into a sound system. Is there something I should be doing differently when I am using house sound?

What size stage are you playing that you need to go through monitors? I prefer NOT to go through monitors. In my experience it takes up a lot of sonic space, and muddies the mix for everyone else. Did you hear your mix out front, or only through the monitors?

I would ask the soundman to take his DI pre-effect out of your RBI next time, and see if that helps. Any time I use a grindy setting out of my Paradriver, I get ugly looks from the soundguy.

Floyd Eye · #13 08-10-2011, 08:08 PM

No extreme settings at all. I don't even crank the presence or drive for grit. I have a Ric with Rotos.

This is what you heard ( as witnessed by a crappy video camera) out in front last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCMFHJ8usMw

This is what it sounded like the first time I used house sound. It was OK until the vocals started, then, where did I go?

Sober ( T. Bodman ver) - YouTube

Floyd Eye · #14 08-10-2011, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lowendgenerator

What size stage are you playing that you need to go through monitors? I prefer NOT to go through monitors. In my experience it takes up a lot of sonic space, and muddies the mix for everyone else. Did you hear your mix out front, or only through the monitors?

I would ask the soundman to take his DI pre-effect out of your RBI next time, and see if that helps. Any time I use a grindy setting out of my Paradriver, I get ugly looks from the soundguy.

Last night it was a pretty big stage and after the soundcheck I told the guy I couldn't hear myself and asked if I should turn my rig up. He said, "No, I'll take care of it."

Gearhead17 · #15 08-10-2011, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

74' Rickenbacker 4001 into a full pedal board into a rackmounted BBE and a SansAmp RBI into a Carvin power amp.

On the fly last night I tried lowering the bass and raising the mid control on the sansamp. Still I got mud from the monitors. The rig sounded the same as it always does, but I didn't want to turn it up louder just so I could hear it. They wouldn't have heard it out front anyway.

The rig sounds just how I want it when I am not hooked into a sound system. Is there something I should be doing differently when I am using house sound?

Possbily, the BBE unit and Sansamp are killing your midrange (frequencies between 200-800hz) and the overall tone is "muddy". I know both units will hurt the midrange, but both can be set to have less "midrange destruction". I assume muddy means you can not distinguish between notes you are playing. You have a rig on stage, why are you going through the monitors? Monitors at bars and even decent music venues are usually not equipped to make a bass guitar sound good.

There is a strong chance the sound of your rig plus the sound of the monitors all putting out the same bass tone could have resulted in a muddy atmosphere around you on stage. If you are going by what the monitors sounded like, you have to remember the PA speakers are going to sound different.

BrandonBass · #16 08-10-2011, 08:22 PM

I had a similar experience yesterday. I ran my bass direct into the board for the first time. I plugged my stingray into a mxr m80, then into the board. The sound was pretty damn muddy.

So much so, I had to cut my bass and boost my mids big time to get a usable sound

Floyd Eye · #17 08-10-2011, 08:22 PM

This is what my rig sounds like by itself.

Tomorrow - YouTube

lowendgenerator · #18 08-10-2011, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

No extreme settings at all. I don't even crank the presence or drive for grit. I have a Ric with Rotos.

This is what you heard ( as witnessed by a crappy video camera) out in front last night.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JCMFHJ8usMw

This is what it sounded like the first time I used house sound. It was OK until the vocals started, then, where did I go?

Sober ( T. Bodman ver) - YouTube

The first video is "private", Sober didn't sound too bad to be honest. Outdoor gigs on flatbed trailers are always a pain in the arse, for performers and sound engineers.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Last night it was a pretty big stage and after the soundcheck I told the guy I couldn't hear myself and asked if I should turn my rig up. He said, "No, I'll take care of it."

In this instance, more stage volume would have been appropriate, at least for the purpose of monitoring yourself. I always turn up my rig to where I'm comfortable, and then negotiate from there. I'm not dragging an 810 and full rack out to play at a whisper.

Floyd Eye · #19 08-10-2011, 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gearhead17

Possbily, the BBE unit and Sansamp are killing your midrange (frequencies between 200-800hz) and the overall tone is "muddy". I know both units will hurt the midrange, but both can be set to have less "midrange destruction". I assume muddy means you can not distinguish between notes you are playing. You have a rig on stage, why are you going through the monitors? Monitors at bars and even decent music venues are usually not equipped to make a bass guitar sound good.

There is a strong chance the sound of your rig plus the sound of the monitors all putting out the same bass tone could have resulted in a muddy atmosphere around you on stage. If you are going by what the monitors sounded like, you have to remember the PA speakers are going to sound different.

The BBE and SansAmp sound fine when no other entity is involved. I don't know why or really even if my bass signal was in my monitor. I know my drummer wanted some of me in his monitor. All I know is that I told the soundguy I couldn't hear myself and he said he would take care of it. He did NOT want me to turn my rig up. My amp's output was on 5.

lowendgenerator · #20 08-10-2011, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

This is what my rig sounds like by itself.

Tomorrow - YouTube

The bass doesn't sound bad in this clip either. Singer needs a little help, but the bass is fine.