Distressing observation - 2 bands this weekend

jaywa · #1 05-31-2009, 05:10 PM

So I went to check out two local bands this weekend. Same venue, same stage, same P.A. for both.

Band 1 - Headlining evening gig. Well-known regional band, been around a long time. Very good drummer (close personal friend who I've had the chance to play with a few times), who knows a ton about drums and setting up for good sound. Bassist using a Stingray, Ampeg head (I think) and 2x18 cabinet and 4x12 cabinet, both mic'd (I think) and not sure about a D.I. Bass sound was too quiet in the mix and just weak tone overall. Totally not what I had expected for that gear. Drums were horribly mixed... kick and snare crushingly loud, teeny tiny toms and I barely heard a cymbal all night and zero high-hat.

Band 2 - mid-afternoon gig. Upcoming younger band. Amazing live sound. Phenomenal young drummer with a tight, sweet sounding kit where you could hear every note he played. Bass was clear, nice and loud and full and balanced well against the kick drum. Um, oh yeah did I mention the bass in this incredible sounding band was coming from a KEYBOARD? AAARGGGH! WHY WHY WHY?

JimmyM · #2 05-31-2009, 05:19 PM

My guess is the bassist in band 1 phased out his signal with his odd choice of cabs, or had a scoopy tone that got lost.

jaywa · #3 05-31-2009, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

My guess is the bassist in band 1 phased out his signal with his odd choice of cabs

Could be. I was talking to their drummer and he said they call their bassist's side of the stage "the pawnshop" cause of the odd selection of gear he has. If anything, though, with that many big drivers I would have expected low-midrange hell instead of the thin sound that came out.

I guess my biggest frustration was that the keyboard bass sounded so good in comparison. The keyboardist played very good lines which helped (or hurt, depending on your perspective), but sonically it just sat so much better in the mix (and even sounded reasonably like a real bass). It's hard enough convincing people of the value of a good bass player (vs. having it done on keys), and then when they go to a live venue and can do an A/B comparison like that it just makes the argument all the tougher. And, this band formerly had a real bass player (who I never heard but apparently left due to "creative differences"), so that kind of hurt too.

modulusman · #4 05-31-2009, 07:01 PM

Same soundman for both bands?

Gearhead17 · #5 05-31-2009, 08:10 PM

What it comes down to is how the soundguy handled the signals. It really does not matter what the bassist has on stage for a monitor. The Keyboard signal obviously was stronger and sounded better throughout the entire tonal range.

I bet anything the bassist with the "pawn shop" rig probably turned the midrange control on that Stingray all the way off. If he went pre-EQ, you got his scooped bass signal. The idea of a bass player having a 2x18 on stage for his bass tone is beyond goofy too. You don't need that much low end on stage to really hear yourself, you need that low midrange more than anything.

There are too many variables to list here about what you really heard. Personally, I am not too interested in bands that don't have acutal bass players on stage. I find keyboards kind of pathetic for bass tones - but hey, that's coming from a 5 string guy!

I need to watch someone play when I go to a concert! Keyboards for synth stuff and what not is fine with me.

bigblondeafro87 · #6 05-31-2009, 08:33 PM

^^ +1. You can't replicate the stage presence or feel a real bass player will give a band.

Of course, if the bass player manages to get lost in the mix with a Stingray, there might be something amiss with his setup

Nick Kay · #7 05-31-2009, 10:42 PM

The bassist was probably blowing the FOH away with his stage sound. So, the engineer felt it was his duty to make the bass sound like butt hole. It's a fairly common occurrence, unfortunately.

kalle74 · #8 06-01-2009, 06:57 AM

keyboards are likely to have a more defined sound compared to most basses, and zero noise on stage, as opposed to bass amps (so no phase-issues with PA sound). or it could be the soundman´s revenge, as previously noted.

moral of the story? have a manageable sound, and keep your low end and stage volume in check.

jaywa · #9 06-01-2009, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Kay

The bassist was probably blowing the FOH away with his stage sound. So, the engineer felt it was his duty to make the bass sound like butt hole. It's a fairly common occurrence, unfortunately.

Not sure that was the case here, as it was an outdoor venue (basically a big stage set-up in a huge parking lot). I was pretty close to the stage and I couldn't hear any bass coming off the stage at all.

Also, FWIW, the bass cabs were the 2x18 on its side, with the 4x12 on top of it.

GregShadoan · #10 06-01-2009, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

Same soundman for both bands?

Sounds like it must not have been the same person.
If it were the same person, it should not have been so differnet, at least in respect to the drum mix.