drum mic question.. how to get the best live sound out of 2 mics

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by jaywa

I would cheat the overhead mic to the side of the hi-hat vs the ride.

Ride cymbals carry like crazy but I find hi-hat presence is often lacking in drum setups with minimal mic'ing.

JMO and YMMV.

A couple days ago when this thread popped up I almost said, "Kick and hi-hat". Those are the two things I most like to hear clearly. I modified my response because the fact is even though people recommend against it, I close mic my drummer's entire kit. Both kicks, both floors, both snares, all the toms, all the rotos, both hi hats. We have overhead condensers but we don't usually use them unless we are outside. People also told me that using splitters so I could run one XLR for both kicks, one for both floors, etc.. was a bad idea, yet we do it all the time and it works fine ( we have identical mics on the splitters). I mic all these drums on 6 channel strips.

Unconventional maybe, but it has never caused us any problems and on gigs when we don't use our guy because the venue provides one we have only ever had one guy say " I ain't mic'ing all those drums". It was an outside gig too. I told him I could have my guy run his board if he wasn't up to the job, but one way or another all of them were going to be mic'ed. He mic'ed them and it all worked out fine. In fact that sound guy is now a friend of ours and has offered to sub for our guy if we need it.


Sorry, didn't mean to ramble.

[dalahorse]

I do like the idea of sub mixing drums and just giving L/R lines to the live console. I toyed with that idea back when I was gigging on drums. Fortunately, I was lucky enough to work with sound engineers with plenty of room on their boards and snakes. If there is enough snake space, it would even do nicely to position the sub mixer at the sound engineer's position and let them have control over too loud/quiet drums or cymbals.

[wcriley]

Originally Posted by dalahorse

I also would go with a D-112 on the bass and an overhead pointed at the center of the kit (snare area). For live, I would not go for an omni. It could lead to ugly bleed and feedback. Recording - omni could work.

I've been following this thread because I'd been thinking along the same lines for about a week before it popped up.

My situation:
Rock oriented band. Volume level usually low enough to allow bartenders and customers to communicate without leaning in and shouting. I mix from the stage. 3 vocal mics (almost always open), acoustic guitar, kick, and a bit of bass and electric guitar reinforcement in the system. All mixed around the acoustic output of the drums.

One bar where we've started working on a fairly regular basis is long (about 300 feet), narrow and somewhat absorbent. By the time the overall volume level is decent at the far end (where the bar is located), the drums are somewhat buried.

I'm not going to invest in a full set of drum mics just for this one particular bar, so the idea of adding a single overhead came to me. My initial thought was to use the omni I have for RTA/auto EQ purposes, but it might add to the bleed issues I already fight when one or more of the vocal mics aren't in use.

Any recommendations for a cardioid that would be appropriate? I'd prefer a dynamic so I don't need to mess with phantom power. (It's available on my board, but all the stage mics are dynamic so I've never used it.)

[dalahorse]

Check out MF's stupid deal of the day today for a setup that'd work for the one venue.

[wcriley]

Whoa! Thanks, dalahorse!
That's a penny less than I just paid for a used e-935 vocal mic!

[dalahorse]

Probably blah quality. But for a hundred bucks, it's worth a try. If you buy them, check in and let us know how they work!

[wcriley]

Yep. I'm probably getting what I'm paying for.
But it's not like I'm going to record with them.
Probably just use one of the condensers as an overhead for a bit of reinforcement and stash the rest into one of my odds-n-ends boxes.

[NickfromSOS]

Haven't checked this in a while so let me bring you up to date...

Band is 6 or 7 pieces, depending on the gig. Corp gigs/weddings/big outdoor stuff. I am the drummer in this band (as well as a bassist in others) and I do sing. We are using a Presonus Studiolive 16.0.2 and I have decided to go with a D112 on the kick and an overhead. I currently have a pair of Behringer C2 condenser mics (I'd only be using 1 though). Can anyone suggest any of the following..

1. a Good single overhead condenser mic - used is fine, budget around $100
2. good settings on the Studiolive Board

thanks

[bigsnaketex]

We use a '57 in the bass drum and 2 overhead omni mics above - and we are behind a shield.

The shield saved our lives and made the stage volume more manageable.

But this is in a church!!

Out live, we use a '57 in the bass drum and 2 - 52's overhead and it seems to work just fine. I would not use the drum shield or the omni's in a bar setting but they work great at church.

[NickfromSOS]

I picked up an AKG Perception 120 large diaphram condenser mic yesterday for a steal, so I will try that out and see how it goes. For $53, how can I go wrong?

[wcriley]

Originally Posted by dalahorse

Probably blah quality. But for a hundred bucks, it's worth a try. If you buy them, check in and let us know how they work!

So far, I've only used one of the overheads from the "Stupid Deal" CAD kit.
It worked OK for my purpose, which was to add a bit of reinforcement to the drum set. Maybe a little "thin" sounding compared to the natural sound of the set. But I didn't have a lot of time to adjust the position or EQ.

I've read some reviews that say the kick mic works better on a floor tom than it does on a kick drum, and is better there than the tom mics in the kit.

I wanted to try one of the mics (snare or tom) on a guitar amp, but the clips don't open far enough to attach to a cab.

My drummer/son is going to take the whole kit to a studio in a couple weeks to get their opinions on them.

[AndyLES]

Kick and overhead.

Or, just the kick, if you're in a small room; chances are the snare, toms, cymbals, etc. will be spilling into the vocal channels anyway.

[AndyLES]

Originally Posted by NickfromSOS

2. good settings on the Studiolive Board

thanks

This depends on a lot of factors. By settings, do you mean EQ, gate, Compressor?

First things first: When you set up the kick and overhead, check the phase relationship. With both mics on, the gain set properly and both channels at equal level, play the drums while one of your bandmates hits the polarity button on the SL16. If the low end becomes "bigger," then leave the button depressed; conversely, if the sound thins out (i.e., loses bass, even slightly), then disengage it.

Gate: I like the gate nice and tight, but that depends on how hard you or another drummer hits the pedal. Most of the drummers I work with have a heavy kick foot, so I can get away with making it tight, but some drummers, especially those who play very dynamically, will sound choked. Play straight quarter notes while a bandmate adjusts the threshold.

Compression: I'd go very lightly with this - just knock off -3dB to -6dB on the absolutely hardest kicks. Again, setting this depends on your/your other drummer's foot.

EQ: Depends on the kick drum itself, the room, stage (hollow stages resonate), mic placement, mic choice, player, etc., but most of the time I find myself scooping a little bit of 300-500hZ, boosting A LITTLE BIT (3db) of 80hZ, and boosting a tiny bit of 3K for attack. Sometimes, that first cut I mentioned is all I need. (of course, these hZ are ballpark figures, because - of course! - every drum, drummer, and room is different)

Don't forget to check the K-subs' polarity, too. I do that every gig, especially when the subs are positioned stage right/stage left (I always prefer, when possible and practical, to put the subs flat on their sides and stage center. Unfortunately, this isn't always possible).

[Stick_Player]

Originally Posted by Biggbass

I'd go with a "Ringo Drums" set up. one on the kick, one overhead.

Like this?