Dual sub placement

davemercier · #1 12-26-2012, 02:02 PM

Hi all, i have two mackie srm 1801 18"powered subs which put out 500 watts continous sound and one b-52 15" sub that puts out 400 watts. I've recently learned that placing two subs that are identical right next to each other provides the best sound, as opposed to having them apart which can cause them to cancel each other out. Well, i'm trying to figure out how i can incorporate the 15" b-52 into the mix without it causing that same cancellation. Maybe placing it in between the mackies would be ok? This would put the mackies at 24" apart. Any advice here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

bassmeknik · #2 12-26-2012, 02:09 PM

It is never a good idea to mix subs of different types. There will be some difference in response between the different designs and the differences will cause odd characteristics. It might work ok but you should try it in rehearsal first and then try it with one or the other and compare. As a general rule using different types of subs don't work/play well together.

bassmeknik · #3 12-26-2012, 02:18 PM

I just looked up the Mackie speakers and see that they are a direct radiating design (driver mounted on the front baffle no horn) but can't determine what design the B-52's are (they made some front loaded folded horns).

If the B-52's have the drivers mounted on the front like the Mackies then the differences will probably be less of an issue. On the other hand if the B-52's are the folded horn design they probably will not blend well with the Mackies. Different designs don't play well together.

A pair of 18's and a 15? just leave the 15 at home and put the 18's right next to each other (or in a vertical stack) for maximum SPL's and minimum cancellations.

Hactar · #4 12-26-2012, 03:43 PM

I'm guessing it would be best to cluster the 1801s (either side-by-side or crossfired), and simply skip the B-52.

However, you might also be able to stack all three subs vertically, if the B-52 is a direct radiating design. The only issue with that is the stack will probably rather too high.

davemercier · #5 12-26-2012, 05:38 PM

Thanks good people, the 15" sub i have, is the amp/sub box for my b-52 matrix 1000 version 2 pa. It is a front firing ported box. I want to be able to use the sub as it would be a waste to have it and not utilize it. I'm running this system: The core of it is the matrix 1000, with it's own two satellite speakers with horns. The matrix also has two full range outputs from the amp/sub box going into a power amp that is powering two additional two way pa speakers. The mackie subs are self powered subs getting their mono signal from a dedicated sub out from my graphic equalizer, and are daisy chained together. I'm trying to find a way that i can use my matrix sub in such a way that it adds something to the mix without being a detriment to the end result. I would hate to have to have the 400 watts of bass turned all the way down, it would be a pretty large box to just be used for the two b-52 tops, even though i have the addon power amp and second pair of tops connected to it.

walterw · #6 12-28-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemercier

I'm trying to find a way that i can use my matrix sub in such a way that it adds something to the mix without being a detriment to the end result.

leave it unplugged and put the guitar amp up on it?

otherwise yeah, leave it at home, it's not gonna help anything here.

(it could be cool by itself for a different little PA, like for acoustic gigs or something.)

JPaulGeddy · #7 12-29-2012, 12:35 AM

Far more hassle and potential problems than its worth.

davemercier · #8 12-31-2012, 03:38 PM

What if i aimed it opposite of the two mackies as in firing backstage, while the mackies were firing forward into the room?

walterw · #9 01-01-2013, 02:52 AM

what purpose would that serve?

davemercier · #10 01-01-2013, 10:17 AM

Well, i just can't stand having a 400 watt amp and 15" sub sitting idly by, so i'm hoping that would at least be of some use as i've heard subs can be placed/aimed pretty much anywhere.

Bass_Pounder · #11 01-01-2013, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemercier

Well, i just can't stand having a 400 watt amp and 15" sub sitting idly by, so i'm hoping that would at least be of some use as i've heard subs can be placed/aimed pretty much anywhere.

Ummm.........no they can't.

derrico1 · #12 01-01-2013, 11:21 AM

If it's a waste to have it and not use it, then sell the extra sub.

Shoehorning it into your working PA doesn't make the sub any more necessary--so you still have the problem of owning more gear than you need. On top of that, you'll have made your load-in and set-up more of a hassle, and probably compromised the band's sound.

tbirdsp · #13 01-01-2013, 11:33 AM

I don't think most guys responding to this thread understand what the B-52 Matrix V2 actually is.
http://www.b-52pro.com/products/Matrix1000V2.html
There's a 3-channel power amp built in to the sub box, 400 watts for the single 15 sub, 150x2 for the tops. He's going to have to have the sub cab there whether he uses it or not, as it houses the amp/crossover/etc for the satelite speakers.
I can see the frustration, but you might be better off just selling the whole B-52 sytem and maybe getting some Mackie tops that match the Mackie subs. The B-52 looks neat for what it is (compact system), but isn't really set up for easy expansion.

davemercier · #14 01-01-2013, 06:26 PM

Thanks Tbirdsp, i really appreciate your good input.

walterw · #15 01-01-2013, 08:43 PM

ah, so you have to drag the thing out to power the tops anyway?

yeah, there's no good way to integrate it with real PA gear. time to just sell it for more normal stuff, i guess.

bassmeknik · #16 01-02-2013, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

ah, so you have to drag the thing out to power the tops anyway?

yeah, there's no good way to integrate it with real PA gear. time to just sell it for more normal stuff, i guess.

+1 time to get rid of it and get some new top boxes

TimmyP · #17 01-04-2013, 07:45 PM

The B52 is a surprisingly decent sounding system. I can't imagine it being useful for a rock band unless they have exceedingly low stage volume. Bluegrass - no problem.

walterw · #18 01-04-2013, 08:03 PM

stack the tops right on the sub and it could make for a pretty kick-butt drum monitor maybe

nutdog · #19 01-04-2013, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

stack the tops right on the sub and it could make for a pretty kick-butt drum monitor maybe

I played a few gigs this year where the sound guy provided this for a drum monitor. A really big drum monitor. All his stuff was old and massive. He really believed in bringing a Sherman to a taser fight.

RS66LB · #20 01-05-2013, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davemercier

Hi all, i have two mackie srm 1801 18"powered subs which put out 500 watts continous sound and one b-52 15" sub that puts out 400 watts. I've recently learned that placing two subs that are identical right next to each other provides the best sound, as opposed to having them apart which can cause them to cancel each other out. Well, i'm trying to figure out how i can incorporate the 15" b-52 into the mix without it causing that same cancellation. Maybe placing it in between the mackies would be ok? This would put the mackies at 24" apart. Any advice here will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

-even if they are different speakers with different characteristics (Thiele/Small parameters etc.) they are both reproducing most of the same frequencies (provided they are both fed the same frequency group and both classified as 'woofers'), when these speakers are physically closer then an average low frequency wavelength (low frequency wavelengths are long so it's quite easy to acoustically 'couple' them) you'll get an increase in low frequency reproduction, I've done this many times with totally different speakers where even a high performance single 18" mixed with a smaller and less expensive 15" will yield noticable results, btw-even if these different speakers are seperated there is no actual cancellation of bass frequencies unless of course the speakers are wired out of phase to one another, in that case it would be akin to them fighting each other with the end result being far less bass response then any single sub would have otherwise provided. Anyway good luck and have a great day.