In-ears

[beebop]

When playing live, does anyone use in-ears? If so do you have pros and cons.

[Craig_S]

You will never want to use wedges again.

[OtterOnBass]

I use them sometimes when I play at church. At first it was hard to get it to stay in my ear (I only use the right one.) Now the problems are getting a good mix and plugging it in and out between sets. We run Aviom monitor controllers so everyone has their own mix, but the signal from the kick drum is too weak, the cable sometimes gets unplugged accidentally and there are 16 inputs that for whatever reason seem to need to be adjusted all the time. I also don't like being tied to one place with the headphones.

The benefits include being able to use it as an ear-plug to turn down the drums on my right side, and being able to hear whatever I want. Usually the sound is good enough that I don't bother hooking it up. I have an amp on stage, so hearing myself isn't a problem. It is nice to have the drummer using them, so he can hear me without turning up. Our room is big with a big stage and there are monitors for the vocalists in front that pretty much fill my needs.

This is going to be a different response than from someone in an acoustically lively room that has had to remove stage noise.

[fokof]

Pros;
- You hear everything clearily , including yourself. Some people don't adapt well to this because , you'll have your playing "In your face".
It helps alot to clean your act.
- Helps keeping the stage sound low , wich will help your band's overall sound. Loud bass amps being FOH's sound worst ennemy , helps alot on that departement.

Cons;
-You won't feel the lower end of the spectrum that you would have with a loud amp , but you can artificialy have it with a Shaker.(personaly , I have it with the PA )
-IE with good bass and flat response are a bit expensive and can be hard to setup for some people, depending on the form of your ear canal. If they are not correctly "seated" in your ear , you won't have good bass response.

[bassomane]

I tell you my story: I liked to have a good sounding EBS rig on stage. Depending on the room the sound was good to very good.....alone!!! After 15 Minutes cymbals crashing into my right ear, a biting vocal monitor into my face and a roaring guitar combo into my left ear, the sound of my bass was only blaahhh. After five hours my head aches, the fingers of my right hand hurt and it was hard to concentrate.

After changing to inear I get my sound as good as I have set up at home. Under live conditions I can hear every detail of my bass sound, even at the worst sounding locations. Further on I can have my special monitor mix so I get what I want. The overall volume reaching my ears dropped dropped in a drastic way. No more ear fatigue and huring fingers. I have so much more control now which helped me to become a better bassplayer.

Now I have to eliminate some prejudices:

1) With inear you get no deep bass rumble

Depending on the quality of your headphones and your PA you get earthshaking lows but in combination with clarity e.g. the bassdrum does sound now much bigger and more detailed. The combination sound of PA and headphones is that what you hear and what is so amazing.

2) With inear you can hear no audience and feel isolated on stage

The best inear headphones can reduce the sound for only 26dB! On stage you have a noise level of above 100dB. So about 74dB are left. A screaming audiance surpasses easily the 100dB limit. So you will hear them, but quieter. After a time of wearing inears you don't feel isolated but more focused on the music.

[TL5]

I like playing with IEMs, particularly if I can control my own mix via Aviom, Hearback or similar device.
Note, I have been a very strong proponent of DI and IEM setups for quite a while.

I've played three gigs in the last week, two different rooms, two different drummers without my IEMs.
Saturday night: great drummer and band. I played with my pedal board (VT bass as amp sim) to a Yamaha poweramp with two cabinets, one with two 10"s the other a one 15"... I heard and felt everything. My amp sounded fantastic. I was re-thinking my position on IEMs.
Sunday night, same room and gear but with a different drummer. Let's call him Bam Bam . OK but no where near Saturday night. I couldn't hear the keyboards, and vocals were iffy, all in all it was also a good experience.
Last night: Same band and gear as Saturday night, only on a larger stage. I never heard the vocals, or the lead guitar and keys on the other side of the stage.. ever. All I heard was drums, myself and the rhythm gtr on my side.

This is why I like IEMs; consistency. I can get the mix I want every time with IEMs. With wedges and backline, every locale is a new challenge.

[iScott]

My drummer has an in-ear system that I like to use at practice sometimes. Once you use it once, you'll want to use it always. Problem is, of course, they are pretty damn expensive.

[iriegnome]

Been using mine for 4 years. I LOVE THEM!!! I hate using floor wedges.

[F-Clef-Jef]

I got around the "expensive" problem by using wired in-ears. I always use a cable on my bass anyway (I'm funny about using a wireless on my bass, and I don't run around the stage that much anyway) so what I did is make a custom cable for my bass with the headphone cable built right into it. It works great and cost me maybe $20 max. Add in a nice set of in-ears (my FutureSonic Atrios were about $180) and I'm in happy-land. Awesome stereo mix, right inside my head! I even appreciate some of the keyboard and guitar players cool stereo patches now!
If you also sing (I'm our bands lead singer also) these things are absolutely wonderful.

[Longhornhombre]

In-ears are definitely the way to go. No more ringing after a show!

If you're looking for a solid pair of dual-driver custom molded IEMs, LiveWires does the trick for about $250! Most custom molds out there are >$700, but these are the real deal, for much $$. Seriously good quality stuff.

They block out around 24dBs on stage, but I still use a 15" behind me just to get the "feel" on stage. The LiveWires do a really great job reproducing my bass--even my low B (Stingray5).

[Jerry Ziarko]

Originally Posted by iScott

Once you use it once, you'll want to use it always. Problem is, of course, they are pretty damn expensive.

So are hearing aids. I would give anything, make that ANYTHING, to reverse the damage I did when I was young. The majority of national acts use IEM these days, even the "old' guys. When done right, there is nothing as satisfying IMHO.

[iScott]

Oh, believe me, I use ear protection always! I've heard far too many horror stories.

[johnabasstool]

IEM's have been a revelation for me personally. Our band use them and I now DI my bass straight into our Yamaha O1V desk out to our JBL VRX rig. I use a small Line 6 cube for backline but really it makes no difference to onstage sound, but no more humping a big rig around for me.. I wear one in my right ear and also being lead singer means I have a perfect mix between bass and vox every night (and anything else I want in there). Like most peeps are saying, once you go there you'll stick with them IMO. If you are a purist who loves to feel the thump behind them they will take some getting used to and may not be for you, but if you want to free yourself from lifting heavy bass gear, and having a less cluttered stage set up, give them a try.

Forgot to say I had an audiologist make me a fitted earpeice - they never come out and are so comfortable...

[Jerry Ziarko]

Originally Posted by iScott

Oh, believe me, I use ear protection always! I've heard far too many horror stories.

That's great to hear. (excuse the pun)

[jaywa]

A lot of people swear by them... I am not on board yet. Biggest problem I have had is getting enough bass response, but then we were not using the high-end models either. I also miss the chest-thump and rumble in the feet although again, I have not tried a Buttkicker or whatever they call it for bass. And of course it only takes one squeal of feedback and you've lost just as much hearing as you would from many shows standing in front of a wedge.

If you sing and play I would think IEMs would be very helpful. Even though I am not sold on IEM for bassists & drummers, I think any singer who doesn't use one is nuts. The other advantage I have really noticed with IEMs is that the sound remains consistent no matter where you roam on the stage. No worrying about staying in the "sweet spot".

Bottom line, I still prefer wedges but I have a suspicion I would cross over to the IEM camp if I ever had a chance to use a real pro-quality set-up. As long as they still let me have my amp on stage for some presence. The whole "silent stage" thing doesn't do it for me. It's supposed to be live, not a recording studio.

[Jerry Ziarko]

You make an excellent point. Way too often I see people try to cheap out with IEM set ups, and use no protection. What I mean is, IMO they should NEVER be used without some type of brick wall limiter. (eg. Aphex Dominator II, DBX IEM, Rane MM42 etc) Guys will spend 2k on a bass, another 1k+ for a sweet rig, and spend nothing protecting their most important tool, their ears. Doing damage when I young left me hearing impaired forever. Using a IEM set up would have greatly reduced the chance of this happening, had it been around when I was growing up. However, without some sort of limiting, you shouldn't even bother. While some of the systems have a built in limiter (as in my Shure PSM 600) this does not offer near the protection of a dedicated limiter. An Aphex Dominator II costs $1200 new, but can be had for a few hundred dollars used. (it's a GREAT unit by the way) If I were to ask how much you would pay to save your hearing, what would your answer be? Pick one of those up used on e-bay. You will never lose your money if you ever decide to sell it. Besides the fact that it can smooth out and enhance an IEM mix, it protects you from an accident.

[Longhornhombre]

Originally Posted by jaywa

...Biggest problem I have had is getting enough bass response, but then we were not using the high-end models either. I also miss the chest-thump and rumble in the feet...

If you sing and play I would think IEMs would be very helpful. Even though I am not sold on IEM for bassists & drummers, I think any singer who doesn't use one is nuts. The other advantage I have really noticed with IEMs is that the sound remains consistent no matter where you roam on the stage. No worrying about staying in the "sweet spot"...

You're right; IEMs are not going to have the feel that a big rig will have. I use both--IEMs and at minimum, a 15" just to get the feel. The sound quality is far superior to wedges (provided you get the right IEMs). Like you said, you're always in the sweet spot!

One comment about drummers/bassists using IEMs...the huge plus for drummers--and us--is that they can get the click in their IEM mix.

To all the IEM-hunting bassists...I seriously recommend trying them out. There are some great brands (Westone, LiveWires, etc) that will faithfully reproduce your tone. Generally, the engineer can pipe in house mics to make sure you get the vibe of the crowd too (which is important since IEMs will block out quite a bit).

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by Longhornhombre

One comment about drummers/bassists using IEMs...the huge plus for drummers--and us--is that they can get the click in their IEM mix.

Good point. Although, if given a choice in those situations, I prefer to have only the drummer get the click and me follow him, vs. he and I both getting the click. It just seems to feel a bit more organic that way.

[Longhornhombre]

Originally Posted by jaywa

Good point. Although, if given a choice in those situations, I prefer to have only the drummer get the click and me follow him, vs. he and I both getting the click. It just seems to feel a bit more organic that way.

I feel the same way...the crowd is hearing the drummer, not the click--so play with the drummer!

I usually keep the click really low and panned, that way, it is drowned out by the time the band comes in on the beginning of a song.

[jaywa]

FYI all, this Sunday I am subbing at a church that runs bass direct to the board and has Aviom IEM for monitoring. I am taking my trusty SansAmp DI and will let everyone know how it turns out.