EQ advice

dancrocker · #1 08-11-2010, 12:23 AM

I'm having some trouble getting definition in my sound. The sound I'm getting now is too "muddy" and sometimes a little boomy. I'm using a Carvin BX1200 with a 4x10 cabinet. In case it matters, I play in a church band and, due to placement constraints, my cab needs to be right in front of the piano. So, the underside of the piano is right behind my amp. We used to set up in a different part of the church where my amp was up against a wall and I don't remember having this kind of sound problems then. Having said this, I'm listening more critically now than I was then.

I've playing with the parametric EQ a bit but since I don't have any feel for how to get the sound I want, it's a bit of a trial and error process. The amp also has a graphic equalizer but I haven't tried to use it yet.

Any suggestions? Is the solution to my problem to adjust the EQ? Is the position of the cab creating the issue?

JimmyM · #2 08-11-2010, 12:25 AM

the position doesn't help. can you elevate it or something? or do you have a smaller cab where you would have an easier time placing it?

Gearhead17 · #3 08-11-2010, 01:13 AM

I have 2 BX1200's. The head is amazing as far as clarity, punch, and ease of use.

Like JimmyM said, try elevating your cab - getting it closer to your ears is key to hearing the mids and highs with greater accuracy.

As for "trial & error" with the EQ, I highly suggest you set all of the knobs "flat" according to the manual. The Contour knob should be all the way to the left along with the Compressor knob. The only way to learn EQ is to adjust one knob at a time and play your bass. Once you hear each knob's function, EQ will rarely scare you in the future. When you are testing each knob, make sure your bass is set flat too. If it is a passive bass - the tone knob should be 100% open and the master volume all the way up. Decrease one tone knob, play, then increase, play, then increase more, play and so on.....

Keep in mind that your tweeter puts out everything 4khz and above (generally) and the 2khz zone is great for pick playing definition and finger style articulation. Now figure out the rest!

Good luck.

jazzy82slave · #4 08-11-2010, 01:22 AM

Try tilting your cab backwards. I use a 10 pound dumbell to prop mine up. Not only does it decouple it from the floor a bit, but I can hear it way better even when it's just a few degrees above the floor.

dancrocker · #5 08-11-2010, 09:53 AM

I need to clarify.
The issue is not that I can't hear myself. Well, I have had trouble hearing myself in the past since I am standing behind my amp (far from ideal, I know but unavoidable). I've solved this by adding a monitor.
Anyways, the issue is with what the congregation hears and how my bass doesn't cut through the mix very well. All I hear is undefined low frequencies. As I said, I'm wondering if the large "cavity" under the piano (where the back of my cabinet points) is creating a resonance that's contributing to the problem.
Moving the cabinet it not an option. Obviously, any sort of EQ is fair game. Also, using a different cab or a mixture of two (using the bi-amp feature of the carvin) might also be an option. I'd need to know this approach would work before I spend the money though.

JamcoPasamerson · #6 08-11-2010, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancrocker

I need to clarify.
...the issue is ...how my bass doesn't cut through the mix very well. All I hear is undefined low frequencies. ...Obviously, any sort of EQ is fair game.

Have you tried boosting 1k and 5 k and maybe rolling off some lows? I am only talking about small increments, like around 3db..

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancrocker

...I'm wondering if the large "cavity" under the piano (where the back of my cabinet points) is creating a resonance that's contributing to the problem.

Probably. Churches usually have quite a bit of natural reverb as well which generally doesn't help with clarity at all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancrocker

Moving the cabinet it not an option.

Can you please explain why this is not an option? Is there not a guitar player you could maybe trade sides with?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancrocker

Also, using a different cab or a mixture of two (using the bi-amp feature of the carvin) might also be an option. I'd need to know this approach would work before I spend the money though.

4 tens should definitely be fine. Again I think just rolling off some lows especially with that large "cavity" acting as a big, bass boosting cabinet. Good luck to you.

rpsands · #7 08-11-2010, 10:54 AM

Use the parametric or graphic and cut at 150hz. Move around that frequency up or down, and if you can adjust the Q to be very narrow (.5 octave or so). I can't remember whether Carvin has an adjustable Q or not.

JamcoPasamerson · #8 08-11-2010, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Use the parametric or graphic and cut at 150hz. Move around that frequency up or down, and if you can adjust the Q to be very narrow (.5 octave or so). I can't remember whether Carvin has an adjustable Q or not.

You could always get a cheap EQ pedal.

LightGroove · #9 08-11-2010, 07:01 PM

Well.... there are a TON of possible contributing factors. A few major that come to mind are room resonance/frequency response and Stage volume. Are you attempting to fill the room with your 4x10 cab? If so how big is the room? Do you have any pa support? What is the room made of ? Low sound waves can be a major nuissance in any live setting. We still battle the boom at our church but have come to grips with its existance...

**colcifer** · #10 08-11-2010, 07:09 PM

And the eq has three SEMI parametric bands; it isn't a parametric eq (it bugs me when people get this wrong- sorry)!

JamcoPasamerson · #11 08-12-2010, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by colcifer

And the eq has three SEMI parametric bands; it isn't a parametric eq (it bugs me when people get this wrong- sorry)!

Again, you could always buy a cheap (parametric) EQ pedal and try to dial out the problem frequency. That should work or at the very least help somewhat. Just sayin'.

walterw · #12 08-12-2010, 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dancrocker

I need to clarify.
The issue is not that I can't hear myself. Well, I have had trouble hearing myself in the past since I am standing behind my amp (far from ideal, I know but unavoidable). I've solved this by adding a monitor.
Anyways, the issue is with what the congregation hears and how my bass doesn't cut through the mix very well.

if you've ended up using a monitor to hear your bass, why even bring the 4x10 cab? isn't the bass in the house PA?

dancrocker · #13 08-13-2010, 12:29 AM

Thanks for all the responses. I'm just catching up with them. Addressing some of the questions:

-I am not going through the PA. It's pretty wimpy. So I am trying to fill the room with my 4x10. The church seats about 500. It's about 120x140ft.
-I don't know what the room is made of. It has seats with cushions and carpet on the floor. There's a bit of tile under and around the altar.

I will try to play with the EQ as suggested by several people.

Muaguana · #14 08-13-2010, 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpsands

Use the parametric or graphic and cut at 150hz. Move around that frequency up or down, and if you can adjust the Q to be very narrow (.5 octave or so). I can't remember whether Carvin has an adjustable Q or not.

I've usually had luck cutting at 250Hz to remove some of the overbearing boom, and that's a common frequency on graphic EQ units.

LightGroove · #15 08-13-2010, 02:53 PM

To be honest...I think your going to be hard pressed pushing any kind of definition through a 4x10 setup. I believe you will be hard pressed to get anything more than rumble. ...you may look into a single 15 or perhaps finding a way to split 2x15's on the stage. In a typical PA a lot of you higher end and more defined notes would typically be crossed over and sent through the standard speakers...your lows would be in the subs thus provided some dynamics and or definition. Im sort of confused..you can hear yourself through a monitor but your not going through the pa?

In your situation it may be smart to invest in some subs and run direct to the system..

dancrocker · #16 08-13-2010, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LightGroove

To be honest...I think your going to be hard pressed pushing any kind of definition through a 4x10 setup. I believe you will be hard pressed to get anything more than rumble. ...you may look into a single 15 or perhaps finding a way to split 2x15's on the stage. In a typical PA a lot of you higher end and more defined notes would typically be crossed over and sent through the standard speakers...your lows would be in the subs thus provided some dynamics and or definition. Im sort of confused..you can hear yourself through a monitor but your not going through the pa?

In your situation it may be smart to invest in some subs and run direct to the system..

I am plugged into the board but the fader is all the way down. I just have the level to the floor monitors up so I can hear myself. What you suggest is an interesting idea though. I suppose I could raise my level in the mains a bit and EQ the channel to only pass the mids and highs. Maybe I will try this.

FYI, the main speakers are really small and can't handle the low frequencies. This is why I'm playing through the 4x10 cab.

dbbxyz · #17 08-14-2010, 06:17 PM

If your cab is directly on the floor/stage you might be well served to de-couple is as has been mentioned.

Anything under the cab...casters, two bricks, a couple of 1 x 2's should do the trick. You may be surprised how effective this can be.

dancrocker · #18 08-14-2010, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbbxyz

If your cab is directly on the floor/stage you might be well served to de-couple is as has been mentioned.

Anything under the cab...casters, two bricks, a couple of 1 x 2's should do the trick. You may be surprised how effective this can be.

Interesting. The floor is concrete with very thin carpet. Do you think the cabinet can be coupling to that?

dbbxyz · #19 08-15-2010, 07:59 AM

^^ mmm... missed the concrete and thin carpet. Maybe coupling is not a big part of the equation.

Like chicken soup...can't hurt. And, if you black-sharpie the ends of your 1 x 2's, it won't even look that bad.

dancrocker · #20 08-15-2010, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbbxyz

^^ mmm... missed the concrete and thin carpet. Maybe coupling is not a big part of the equation.

Like chicken soup...can't hurt. And, if you black-sharpie the ends of your 1 x 2's, it won't even look that bad.

Actually, you didn't miss anything because I never specified the floor material.

I'll try some bricks anyways in addition to the EQ suggestions.