Going direct to PA with no amp- need help

jmceachern36 · #1 02-02-2013, 07:48 AM

Need some advice. Having a problem with a group that I play with. I seem to be too loud no matter how much I turn down. Trying to come up with a solution where I can hear myself but am not heard by others i guess. I tried IEM but not matter how low I made the volume It made my ears ring and hurt. Was thinking a Sansamp bass driver (or somthing similar) and a monitor. My questions are. Does anyone use that set up? What's a good monitor? Will a good monitor end up being heard by the rest of the band anyway? Is there such thing as a small lightweight monitor that I can place very close to my ears so I can hear but no one else can? I could just use that as a cab. Any other possible suggestions?

craig.p · #2 02-02-2013, 12:43 PM

If you're not loud enough for yourself but too loud for others, then you need to decrease the sound source's distance to your own ears. Looking at your myspace page and where you stand on stage, you could mount a small practice amp on a tripod stand, set it at ear height far stage right, and fire it directly at yourself. It might take you too far in the other direction, where you could hear you but others might not be able to. But it might be a good starting place to find a compromise from. From there you could drop the height of the amp, change the tripod's location, etc.

You can also try tilting your floor amp so it fires directly up at your ears. That way it'll sound louder to you.

~~Also, what the other band members are hearing is mostly bass, and not so much mids. So you could point the amp at them so you get less mids and they get more.~~ Sorry, got that completely backwards. They need less, not more. Ugh . . .

Anyway, there's ~~a few~~ two things you can try.....

Keithwah · #3 02-02-2013, 01:44 PM

I used to have this issue until I started side-washing my rig. Pointing it straight into the stage firing directly at you this minimizes the spill into the room, directs the sound right at you and can allow you to reduce the overall level.

When playing rock, this has helped me for over 20 years. When I play Country, I swear by my IEM's. Different feel to the music makes it work out better, no Marshall's to compete with.

jmceachern36 · #4 02-02-2013, 02:00 PM

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by side washing. Sounds good though. Instead of facing the crowd you face it left or right? I was going totry and put it where the monitors are and point it straight back.

Keithwah · #5 02-03-2013, 01:03 AM

Side washing is setting your rig up on the side(s) of the stage with your cabs facing into the stage. It works nicely in that the drummer and guitarists have it coming right at them, and you are close to your rig. And do get your rig off the floor enough to where the speakers are hitting ear level. For example, if you are running a head and a 2x10, get it a couple feet up on a case or amp stand, etc. it works even better to get your guitarists to side wash from the other side of the stage too! Doing this puts a razor sharp guitar slammed right into their ear. They tend to start turning it down since it cuts through their brain. Win...win.

Jack · #6 02-03-2013, 05:51 AM

If you need a product then there is everything from those tiny Galaxy Hotspots and similar all the way to powered wedges which ca be angled, tilted and pointed to get pretty much any coverage you want.

IME you really don't need to buy anything to fix this though. PA FOH gigs can often be much improved by putting your amps at the sides of the stages pointing across as has already been said. It means that you guys hear yourselves better odd delay/phasing issues with FOH are reduced and you can control your volume to your heart's content without making more work for the soundman.

On a personal note, I have a cabinet which cant be any more than a 45cm cube that goes on a table at stage left pointing to stage right. Or I have a little 65W tiltback amp for those gigs where there's decent monitoring. In which case that goes somewhere pointing up and towards me. There are loads of solutions.

uhdinator · #7 02-03-2013, 04:17 PM

Something like this maybe.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/e2fubz80gsk9b9p/stage.gif

Cut back some low freq possibly.

jmceachern36 · #8 02-03-2013, 05:26 PM

Cool Diagram. I suppose I should say that the drummer (who has all the issues) doesn't sit where a drummer sits. He's at the left front of the stage facing sideways so everyone can see him. I'm where the drummer usually is.

Floyd Eye · #9 02-03-2013, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmceachern36

Cool Diagram. I suppose I should say that the drummer (who has all the issues) doesn't sit where a drummer sits. He's at the left front of the stage facing sideways so everyone can see him. I'm where the drummer usually is.

That's the problem right there.

joegrant413 · #10 02-03-2013, 05:31 PM

I've been happily using SansAmp VT Bass going into a QSC K12 PA. I keep the QSC next to my feet and always feel how I am playing. Have been doing this for 2 years.

Hope this helps, Joe

joegrant413 · #11 02-03-2013, 05:32 PM

By the way, an XLR output goes from the SansAmp to the house system.

craig.p · #12 02-05-2013, 08:14 AM

Another example of sidefill:

I did it because the fiddle player, who stands just stage left of the right-side monitor, complained about not enough "presence" when the cab is aimed at the audience (or congregation as they say). A good secondary effect of 90 degree orientation is you don't toast the people in the front seats, and you have a better chance of the people way over on the right hearing you at least a little. (For this contract, I'm "on my own," i.e. bass doesn't go through the PA.) Moderate size room; the pic shows only about 3-5% of the total square footage.

TH500 on an Avatar B212. '73 Ric, 1 custom wound pickup with a 25K drag resistor, no controls, guard by Pickguardian.

jmceachern36 · #13 02-07-2013, 06:57 AM

Love that pic. "Bass amp, you're in 'time out'"! That's gonna be me tonight.

craig.p · #14 02-08-2013, 10:40 AM

So . . . What did you change and how did it work out?

jmceachern36 · #15 02-08-2013, 11:03 AM

Instead of using my cabs I plugged into 2 monitors in front of the stage. I could hear myself on some of the songs and not on others. It sounded like I was playing a banjo. They were happy....I'm thinking of putting a raised up monitor right next to me so I can hear it but the others hopefully won't.

jaywa · #16 02-08-2013, 12:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmceachern36

Instead of using my cabs I plugged into 2 monitors in front of the stage. I could hear myself on some of the songs and not on others. It sounded like I was playing a banjo.

This has been my experience as well. Unless you're running heavyweight, pro caliber wedges with at least a 12-inch driver, bass through a wedge sounds like garbage. So my rule of thumb is either I get IEMs or I get a bass amp on stage. I refuse to go without both because wedges are just too iffy.

jmceachern36 · #17 02-08-2013, 12:30 PM

I spoke to Don at LDS. He said he could make me a resonably priced monitor voiced for bass with either a 10 or 8 inch speaker. That might be nice. I could use it for rehearsals too.

two fingers · #18 02-08-2013, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmceachern36

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by side washing. Sounds good though. Instead of facing the crowd you face it left or right? I was going totry and put it where the monitors are and point it straight back.

Yep. If you stand on the your right side of the stage, put the amp on the far end of the stage and point it right at you (to the left). I do this whenever I can.

Couple of questions:

What are you currently playing through?
What are you competing with on stage? Guitar amps, what kind? Loud drummer?
What kind of places do you play and is your band's overall volume loud or not?

F-Clef-Jef · #19 02-08-2013, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmceachern36

Need some advice. Having a problem with a group that I play with. I seem to be too loud no matter how much I turn down. Trying to come up with a solution where I can hear myself but am not heard by others i guess. I tried IEM but not matter how low I made the volume It made my ears ring and hurt. Was thinking a Sansamp bass driver (or somthing similar) and a monitor. My questions are. Does anyone use that set up? What's a good monitor? Will a good monitor end up being heard by the rest of the band anyway? Is there such thing as a small lightweight monitor that I can place very close to my ears so I can hear but no one else can? I could just use that as a cab. Any other possible suggestions?

Ummm, that has me confused...
Turn them down. More.