Good Tom/Cymbal mics?

KingRazor · #1 08-14-2011, 10:10 PM

I'm looking for some new drum mics for my church and we could really use some good ones for the toms and cymbals.

The toms we have now have a really wide field, they almost pickup more snare than tom.

Any suggestions?

FullTime Tim · #2 08-14-2011, 10:21 PM

Budget? What price range? do you care about size.

Everyone will have their favorites for live sound, but often church budgets will limit the "best" options. But there will always be some good budge options.

I'm a fan of Audix D2 for affordable tom mics
Shure Beta 56A is a good choice.

Lots of good one more expensive than that.

There are lots of options... but give me a price per mic and I'll narrow it down for you.

projectMalamute · #3 08-14-2011, 10:26 PM

How much do you want to spend? These things are pretty much the best tom mic ever: Josephson Engineering e22S microphone

The little clip on Audix condensers sound nice. I don't especially care for the D series stuff but I know a lot of people who get good results with them.

Or you could just get a handful of SM57's. They work fine and cost like 80 bucks.

I like SM81's or 414's for overheads. Are you trying to spot mic cymbals?

KingRazor · #4 08-14-2011, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullTime Tim

Budget? What price range? do you care about size.

Everyone will have their favorites for live sound, but often church budgets will limit the "best" options. But there will always be some good budge options.

I'm a fan of Audix D2 for affordable tom mics
Shure Beta 56A is a good choice.

Lots of good one more expensive than that.

There are lots of options... but give me a price per mic and I'll narrow it down for you.

Well, there isn't a budget for this. We're looking for the cheapest decent mics we can get.

EDIT: Under $100 would be ideal.

KingRazor · #5 08-14-2011, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

How much do you want to spend? These things are pretty much the best tom mic ever: Josephson Engineering e22S microphone

The little clip on Audix condensers sound nice. I don't especially care for the D series stuff but I know a lot of people who get good results with them.

Or you could just get a handful of SM57's. They work fine and cost like 80 bucks.

I like SM81's or 414's for overheads. Are you trying to spot mic cymbals?

For the cymbals we're just using a pair of overheads, I think we'll keep that model going, we just needs ones with some tighter pickup patterns.

projectMalamute · #6 08-14-2011, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Well, there isn't a budget for this. We're looking for the cheapest decent mics we can get.

Just get a handful of 57's.

Seriously, they work fine.

I use them all the time, thousands of engineers have put on hundreds of thousands of great sounding shows with them.

Be very wary of the advice of anyone who can't figure out how to make an SM57 sound good.

Northern Light and Sound, probably like 80 bucks.

KingRazor · #7 08-14-2011, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

Just get a handful of 57's.

Seriously, they work fine.

I use them all the time, thousands of engineers have put on hundreds of thousands of great sounding shows with them.

Be very wary of the advice of anyone who can't figure out how to make an SM57 sound good.

Northern Light and Sound, probably like 80 bucks.

Yeah we have one for our snare already and that has worked well.

I just wondered if there was a better option for overheads, mainly.

Tom-Phil · #8 08-14-2011, 10:41 PM

I really like Audix D4's for toms and kick, although I hear great things about the D6 as a dedicated kick mic (haven't tried it). I have a D2 on my snare, and I get rave reviews on it. Just as a rule of thumb, though, you want to stay away from omnidirectional mics like the Shure SM 58; that wide field is great for vocals - terrible for instruments.

As for cymbals, I presume that you're looking for good overhead mics, and I don't have much experience dealing with those. The SM58 I sing into while I'm drumming seems to pick up plenty of cymbal sounds - you might consider hanging a couple of vocal mics high overhead. Just experiment, I guess.

Most of the sound engineers I encounter really like condenser mics on the hi-hat. Hope any of this helps!

KingRazor · #9 08-14-2011, 10:46 PM

How's the Audix f9 for overheads? Anyone familiar with it?

FullTime Tim · #10 08-15-2011, 06:20 AM

I don't have much experience with Audix on OH. Without getting "picky" you likely would be happy with them.

Generally in a worship setting a couple good instrument condensers on OHs will do the job.

Sure when you get into recording and show, everyone has their favourites, but that's the way of tech.

If you are buying from a local supplier - ideally a pro audio shop. They might be able to rent you something to try. That would be the best way to test run something.

Hawkeye · #11 08-18-2011, 09:50 AM

My son-in-law asks me to play drums every once in a while with his worship team. The kit's behind a plexi-screen and they use two Rode NT5 small condenser overheads for the toms / cymbals. The pick-up pattern has even coverage for this good-sized kit which consists of:

4 cymbals ( 2 crash, one splash, one ride) plus Hi-Hats
3 toms

The ubiquitous SM-57 on the snare (ho-hum) and an Audix D6 on the kick makes for a total of 4 channels. Eezy-peezy. Because they use in-ear-monitoring via Roland M-48' band members have access to all 4 channels of the drums and can tweak their monitor mix to taste.

This works fine if you have a drummer who is fairly balanced in their dynamics between the toms and cymbals.

I would rather the drummer mix his own sound via playing dynamics as compared to relying on a sound-man to balance individual mics for all those toms and cymbals.

FullTime Tim · #12 08-18-2011, 09:57 AM

^ ^ ^ That actually sounds like a really good setup. I forgot about the Rode mics... not as commonly known, but the few times I've demoed them they sounded great.

For the average setup for worship the above description is perfect.

fokof · #13 08-18-2011, 10:40 AM

For toms , a good , cheap , practical mike is this one:

Sennheiser e604 3-Pack | Sweetwater.com

They come with rim clips , so no need for mike stands.
Makes the stage looks cleaner.

kglas4bass · #14 08-18-2011, 11:12 AM

For small condenser cymbal mic's , CASCADE has a pair for 150. Tom's? Ya can't go wrong with 57's, cheap and easy!

KingRazor · #15 08-18-2011, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkeye

My son-in-law asks me to play drums every once in a while with his worship team. The kit's behind a plexi-screen and they use two Rode NT5 small condenser overheads for the toms / cymbals. The pick-up pattern has even coverage for this good-sized kit which consists of:

4 cymbals ( 2 crash, one splash, one ride) plus Hi-Hats
3 toms

The ubiquitous SM-57 on the snare (ho-hum) and an Audix D6 on the kick makes for a total of 4 channels. Eezy-peezy. Because they use in-ear-monitoring via Roland M-48' band members have access to all 4 channels of the drums and can tweak their monitor mix to taste.

This works fine if you have a drummer who is fairly balanced in their dynamics between the toms and cymbals.

I would rather the drummer mix his own sound via playing dynamics as compared to relying on a sound-man to balance individual mics for all those toms and cymbals.

Right now we have the problem of our tom mics picking up the snare/cymbals more than the toms themselves (despite being RIGHT OVER the toms).

FullTime Tim · #16 08-18-2011, 11:39 AM

That is often where a gate comes into play in a pro set up. Often in worship, keeping it simple will give you as good a mix. When you get a mic on everything you get into phase issues and gain before feedback etc. I'm not saying don't mic the whole kit....heck I love to when I have a full mic locker and bunch of channels to work with..... but if you can get a good sound from a four mic setup, go for it.

Doctor Dirt · #17 08-18-2011, 12:04 PM

It's been mentioned before the Shure 57 ia the best all purpose mic PERIOD!! Great snare mic and tom mic, you can get them up in the air for cym. but thats not right in comparison with some inexpensive condens. You can take an inexpensive vocal mic for cym. and roll off the lows and partial mids with the highs at O (flat)(12 o'clock) hahaha and they actually work well. For the kick drum for me theres only one akg D112 it still produces the best low end and is as durable as it gets. I've had mine for 20 years now and I do test it fairly often ands its lost nothing. Ofcourse a great drum sound starts with great drum shells. The thinner the shell the better and Birch or Maple are still the main ingrediants. I play Yamahas Recording Customs and other than some custom Eames or Sonor Delites the YRDC are the best. they mic up beautifully they have just the right resonance and tune up and maintain their tuning very nicely. Birch 6 ply is hard to beat!!! Good luck always start flat and slowly add, toms don't want bass or low mids and the kick drum needs 125 either way down or slightly up. That depends on the room but the 125 is your overall graphic truth. Most times I have it just below flat but I do play rooms were it adds bottom without becoming a boooming mess. 440 is great for toms but will mess up your vocal mix if you don't have a seperate drum eq, so flat start the 440 and go slow with it. Test 123 hahaha!!! Doc

KingRazor · #18 08-18-2011, 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FullTime Tim

That is often where a gate comes into play in a pro set up. Often in worship, keeping it simple will give you as good a mix. When you get a mic on everything you get into phase issues and gain before feedback etc. I'm not saying don't mic the whole kit....heck I love to when I have a full mic locker and bunch of channels to work with..... but if you can get a good sound from a four mic setup, go for it.

Even using a gate doesn't help because, again, the mic picks up the snare better than the tom, despite being right over the tom.

projectMalamute · #19 08-18-2011, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Even using a gate doesn't help because, again, the mic picks up the snare better than the tom, despite being right over the tom.

What mic are you using now?

Doctor Dirt · #20 08-18-2011, 12:26 PM

If your getting to much bleed than get a shure 58 type of mic and get it on a boom over the kit. Get the lows and low mids out with the highs at 12 straight up. If the cymbals are set up low this set up will work very nicely. I used it fior years in small to large rooms, at times adding another mic up top with a D112 in the kick and a 57 in between the snare and hat. If the cymbals are high you need to find the sweet spot as far as mic placement. This is a very simple set up but gets rid of the bleeding problem. Doc