Grrr! Church Just Bought a Drum Shield

[capnsandwich]

My church does the same thing. We have IEMs, good size stage, well designed sanctuary, etc. and our drum kit is enveloped with plexiglass and carpet to deaden it. If you're out in the sanctuary and someone's on the drums with the sound off, it sounds like the drums are being played in another room somewhere. I constantly fight to maintain contact with the drummer. I'll find myself watching his feet, since I can't see his face, to make sure I'm locking in with him on certain parts.

I think a trend that's happening in some modern churches is that they're trying to get away from this "arena rock" style of worship and getting into a more listener-friendly style so that no one complains. A lot of times pastors will get bombarded by older folks complaining that the drums were too loud or the guitars were too loud. Our pastor will even come in during sound check and tell the sound man to lower volumes on bass and electric guitars. There's sometimes that my gain is lowered so much that I can't hear myself at all, even with the IEMs. My pastor likes the acoustic guitar and the vocals out front.

[JoeVictim]

Originally Posted by jaywa

I forgot to say, all of our instrumentalists are on IEMs. So that blocks out a lot of the ambient noise from a stage volume perspective.

I know we've recently been getting some complaints about volume (NOT from our lead pastor, who has been telling the tech crew to turn things up), so I suspect this may be a psychological appeasement thing to those people more than anything. I.e., if we put up a sneeze guard it will at least look like we're trying and maybe those people won't think things are so loud if the see the drums being "covered up".

Sorry, I have no experience playing this type of music in that setting...but surely, not all 1200 seats in any venue would have the same volume. Can this person/people complaining, just not find a different place to be? I mean, if the person is complaining of volume, move away from the band. Why would that be a complex solution? People have problems and throw money at it. Sometimes, you need common sense, which money will never buy.

And if everything is amplified, I would guess the person may be unhappy with the total volume, not just drums. Is turning the FOH down not an option...? At some point, you just have to cut your losses. The person may have an issue with someone in the band and no level of volume will suffice.

[invalidprotocol]

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

My church does the same thing. We have IEMs, good size stage, well designed sanctuary, etc. and our drum kit is enveloped with plexiglass and carpet to deaden it. If you're out in the sanctuary and someone's on the drums with the sound off, it sounds like the drums are being played in another room somewhere. I constantly fight to maintain contact with the drummer. I'll find myself watching his feet, since I can't see his face, to make sure I'm locking in with him on certain parts.

I think a trend that's happening in some modern churches is that they're trying to get away from this "arena rock" style of worship and getting into a more listener-friendly style so that no one complains. A lot of times pastors will get bombarded by older folks complaining that the drums were too loud or the guitars were too loud. Our pastor will even come in during sound check and tell the sound man to lower volumes on bass and electric guitars. There's sometimes that my gain is lowered so much that I can't hear myself at all, even with the IEMs. My pastor likes the acoustic guitar and the vocals out front.

Is it a fully encased room or just walls and carpet? Our drummer its in a fully encased and mic'd room with large plexiglass windows. From where I stand I can see his feet and face. If the sound goes wonky the visual on the feet is paramount. At least with the facial visual we can use expressions to communicate. Like the 'dude you're off click not me' look, the 'nice fill' nod or the "there's still another service to get this right" smile.

It is a weird setup but it works to clean up the overall sound in the sanctuary.

[capnsandwich]

Originally Posted by invalidprotocol

Is it a fully encased room or just walls and carpet? Our drummer its in a fully encased and mic'd room with large plexiglass windows. From where I stand I can see his feet and face. If the sound goes wonky the visual on the feet is paramount. At least with the facial visual we can use expressions to communicate. Like the 'dude you're off click not me' look, the 'nice fill' nod or the "there's still another service to get this right" smile.

It is a weird setup but it works to clean up the overall sound in the sanctuary.

It's got plexiglass in the front, carpet covered plywood on for the back walls, and a carpet covered piece of wood for the roof. The whole thing is mic'd to death, though.

[jaywa]

Originally Posted by capnsandwich

It's got plexiglass in the front, carpet covered plywood on for the back walls, and a carpet covered piece of wood for the roof. The whole thing is mic'd to death, though.

I subbed a few times at a church that had their drummer in a "phone booth" like that. I always had to give their drummers credit... I'm claustrophobic so I'm seriously not sure I could function in an environment like that.

[drummike]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

What did any of that have to do with you developing arthritis? Just curious.

We have acoustic drums in a cage with a top and the drummer plays to a click and she's more than happy to do it. To each their own I suppose.

Nothing. Two separate issues that added up to my retirement.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by drummike

Nothing. Two separate issues that added up to my retirement.

Ah, ok. Sorry to hear about that. Arthritis sucks.

[sdenney78]

Originally Posted by invalidprotocol

You must properly quarantine the drummer!

Yes, quarantine when needed. Drummers definitely hate them, but they do help lower dB levels. If you have a small stage area and overly loud stage volume is a problem, a complete drum shield kit can help. So, if you can't get the drummer to play softer, then the next best option may be a drum shield.

One of the most important things to do when using a drum shield is to have some type of absorption panel positioned close behind the drum set. If you don’t have something to absorb the reflected sound from the shield, then you won't get the full benefit of the shield; the sound will just reflect and fill the room.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by jaywa

I know we've recently been getting some complaints about volume

It's the age-old debate over the KIND of music you are playing. The people who think it's too loud probably don't like the kind of music in the first place.

That being said, Jesus doesn't care if there's a plastic wall so keep doing what you're doing for all the right reasons and don't let it bug you too much. We have one too and it's not my favorite. But, the service is not set up to please me. It has a higher purpose.

[walterw]

if everybody (including the drummer) is on IEMs, why would it be an issue?

what you hear in your ears shouldn't change much at all.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by walterw

if everybody (including the drummer) is on IEMs, why would it be an issue?

what you hear in your ears shouldn't change much at all.

In church situations (that I have encountered anyway) it's more about the FOH mix than the other musicians being able to hear on a loud stage. We actually put our guitar and bass rigs in a closet backstage for isolation so they don't drown out the FOH. It's hard to explain but (physics aside) mixing a church is different from mixing a club all dimensions being equal. Many of the PA's are overkill. You're not really trying to create a volume level that's at club levels. With everything lower, it's harder for the sound guy to get a grip if the drums (or anything else on stage) are filling the room up and not allowing him tweeking room.

[MNAirHead]

IT's amazing how many tenuterd folks don't get why...

In a worship environment... it's for the "perception" of quiet...

Average folks hear with their eyes

-----

These are for complaint management

[MNAirHead]

There was a note about a Worship leaders being control freaks....

Guess this must have been from someone who's never done it.

[blastoff99]

I do FOH at my church. It's a pretty big room, and a little too live. Even with the 'sneeze guard,' I'm constantly after some of the drummers to not flail away so hard. We've got a couple who swing from the hip at the cymbals. I hate to think what it would be like without the shield. Actually, I *know.* I've heard it. It's completely unmanageable.

As it is, I have to try to get the vocals over the drums and then slot everything else in there somewhere, all without exceeding my dB limit. The drum shield makes this barely possible.

[MNAirHead]

Blast ...

Serious question.. then why not electronic drums

[blastoff99]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Blast ...

Serious question.. then why not electronic drums

Good question. I do not know the answer. Right now it seems we're blaming the room for everything, and while it is pretty live and does me no favors on the high end, it still seems to me that the drummers could show some restraint.

[KingRazor]

I don't know about blast's case but in my situation electronic drums wouldn't work because everyone in the leadership at my church prefers real drums.

[mccartneyman]

There are basically two approaches in the churches I've played in: Drum shield or electronic kit. It's a losing battle to get most drummers to play softly on acoustic drums unless they have been very well trained. In a contemporary service, we rotated four drummers, ages 15 to 50, and the younger the drummer, the louder and harder he played. I could not stand closer to four feet from his snare, even with the shield. We had three guitars -- two with amps and an acoustic that went straight to the board -- keys that went straight and bass, which was DI'd but for which I had a 600 watt amp. We had floor wedge monitors. The band was so loud I could not get more than three feet in front of my amp if I wanted to hear it.

In the church's other "blended" service, I played for 8 years, everything went direct with electronic drums. Only the acoustic piano and woodwinds, brass and strings had microphones. We used IED monitors. The guitarists were never happy, which I can understand, but I loved being able to make my own monitor mix. FOH sound man had his hands full keeping brass volume down. He was under orders to keep SPL level at the back of the room -- which seated 1200 -- no higher than 86db.

In several area churches, drummers are literally boxed into an acoustic cage that surrounds them on all sides as well as having a ceiling. As bad as that may be for the drummer, it keeps the wash of the drums from coming out the back and top of the plexi wraparound shields.

I understand completely that feeling comfortable is important to playing well, but most of the people I've played with -- especially drummers and guitarist -- are offended if you ask them to play softer. I think too many church musicians think the service is all about their comfort level rather than that of the congregation, or that the music is more important than the message.

[sdenney78]

Originally Posted by blastoff99

I do FOH at my church. It's a pretty big room, and a little too live. Even with the 'sneeze guard,' I'm constantly after some of the drummers to not flail away so hard. We've got a couple who swing from the hip at the cymbals. I hate to think what it would be like without the shield. Actually, I *know.* I've heard it. It's completely unmanageable.

As it is, I have to try to get the vocals over the drums and then slot everything else in there somewhere, all without exceeding my dB limit. The drum shield makes this barely possible.

Do you have a sound absorption panel set up directly behind the drummer? If not, you won't get the full benefit of the drum shield. The sound reflected from the shield will still just fill the room without something to absorb into.

[blastoff99]

Originally Posted by sdenney78

Do you have a sound absorption panel set up directly behind the drummer? If not, you won't get the full benefit of the drum shield. The sound reflected from the shield will still just fill the room without something to absorb into.

Alas, no. This is not my department, really (I don't make any decisions regarding equipment or setup) but I could mention it.

I was hoping the drummer would absorb the sound.