Help to mix bass at FOH

[Medford Bassman]

I run sound for the band from the stage. I use a wireless so I can walk out and check sound quality throughout the night.

I'm not really happy with the overall sound of my bass through FOH. I know every room we play is different but while the bass is coming through, it's a little to muddy for my tastes. I can't get a little more clarity out of it.

I'm looking for some EQ ideas. I use an Allen & Heath mixer with the following controls:

High
High mid freq.
High mid boost/cut
Low mid freq.
Low mid boost/cut
Low

I run post EQ on my Shuttle 6.0 DI

I'm using a VT bass through the return effects of the Shuttle.

Thanks for any help you can give.

[MikeBass]

run pre-EQ from your amp and EQ your bass from the board.
Nothing less fun when mixing than fighting an EQ with another EQ.

[modulusman]

+ One to what MikeBass said.

[walker rosewood]

another +1 to go pre-eq.

A little trick, first boost the low mid knob, then slowly sweep the frequency to find where it's really booming, then cut that freq. Probably ~125hz, give or take depending on the room.

[Russell L]

I'm listening to this. I've always wondered about the pre and post thing. Good to know.

[fokof]

There is no magic recipe , everything in the signal chain has a certain role to play but mostly , as you stated , acoustics.

IMHO less stuff between the bass and the speaker , the better.
So a very big +1 for DI pre EQ.
Even if you put your amp to "pre" , it doesn't mean that it wonn't "color" the sound. Do a A/B test with your out @pre and your wireless straight into the board , then you'll know if your out is really pre.

Giving EQ'ing tips on the internet is a bit ...... how should I say ..... I have to stay polite ...... useless ?

The tip I can give is use a reference CD that sounds good, and that you know how it should sound in every situation possible. A good CD that you know inside out.
Cut all the ringing frequencies , then your bass should be OK

If after all that your bass is still not OK , well I don't know , change strings/ change bass ......

[Medford Bassman]

Thanks everyone, I will set the Shuttle DI to Pre EQ and EQ the bass from the mixer.

[MooseLumps]

Same PA every time?

Tell us what your speaker complement is.

The above advice is a good starting place. Also, play some music through the PA when you set up in the room and listen to how it interacts with the acoustic signature of the room, and compensate from there.

[Medford Bassman]

Same pa every time. Setup: 2 yamaha club 2x15 (instruments only), 2 ev 1x18 subs. 2 mackie powered speakers 1x12 plus horn (vocals only)

[Wes Whitmore]

You have EQ on your bass, the VT bass has EQ, the shuttle has EQ, and the FOH board has EQ. Since you are using a vt bass that colors the signal very much already, run pre-eq on the shuttle and see if that helps.

I run my bass right into my amp, and if I run pre-eq, it's the same as plugging my bass right into the board, without the amp coloration, so I personally run post-eq, even with my eq flat. I use a GK mb200. Many amps send pre EQ through the preamp stage first though, and I think the GB does so you get get 2 preamp blend if you want it. It's easy enough to try pre-eq and see how you like it.
Wes

[steveksux]

I bet your subs are turned up too high.

Listening to music you're familiar with, on flat system, adjust the subs to match the mains.

Looking for flat freq response to start with before tinkering with the EQ.

Subs : Mains
____________________________________________

Not like this:

Subs : Mains
-----__________________


At that point, the subtle mids that give your bass tone clarity vs boomy are not getting drowned out.

Then adjust the EQ on the board to taste. Remember the sub setting, it should be constant between clubs.

People like bass booming in the club, so the tendency is to turn subs up. That's a weird EQ setting with a sharp jump at the point where the subs cross over. Better to get that transition flat, and boost low end with EQ if you want more bottom.

At that point, go after the ringing freqs with the parametric and should be good to go.

Randy

[Roadkill]

IMO the whole "gotta DI your bass" thing came about mostly because most players cut their mids WAY too much. When I run sound for a band that has a bass player I can work with I'll just mic the bass cab - especially if it is a tube amp. I'll usually have to coax him to uncut the mids during soundcheck but they (and often other members of the band) usually freak out as to how much better they can hear the bass on-stage. I used to be a "cutter" too until I learned to not suck .

[MooseLumps]

Originally Posted by steveksux

Remember the sub setting, it should be constant between clubs.

I disagree. Different rooms, different battles. The subs should be mixed to support the rest of the pa, and not overtake it, but having a magic setting for the subs is a quick path to disappointment. They will mix differently in each room, and frequently boom at certain frequencies and be shy at others.

[Medford Bassman]

the funny thing about our sub is the bass comes thru pretty well but the kick is lame.

I like the idea of pre EQ on my DI set everything flat and work it from there.

[projectMalamute]

It could be a lot of things. What are you using for a crossover? A boomy bass and weak kick could be a bump in the transition band there.

The 'use the pre-EQ setting' is a pretty common knee jerk reaction around here. I do live sound for all sorts of different kinds of bands and get all sorts of different kinds of sounds coming down the DI. I can almost always make whatever I'm getting work and almost never know or care how the dude has his rig set up.

[Medford Bassman]

we're using a DOD crossover set at about 80-90 for the crossover point

We used to use a used Rane. After getting it repaired twice and still failing we swapped it for the DOD our drummer had lying around.

[steveksux]

Originally Posted by MooseLumps

I disagree. Different rooms, different battles. The subs should be mixed to support the rest of the pa, and not overtake it, but having a magic setting for the subs is a quick path to disappointment. They will mix differently in each room, and frequently boom at certain frequencies and be shy at others.

I'm talking about the volume control. The subs should be set to be the same volume at the crossover point as the main speakers they are crossing over from. You're shooting for a smooth response through the crossover point.

If the room is boomy, that's a job for the EQ, not the volume control of the sub. The room isn't linearly boomy from the low end of the subs response to the crossover point, so why would you compensate for that with the volume knob on the sub that affects all freqs from the low end of the subs to the crossover point in a linear manner?

Randy

[James Judson]

Turn the subs off. Mix the band to taste then bring the subs up just enough to give the bottom end the balls it needs in the bottom end.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by James Judson

Turn the subs off. Mix the band to taste then bring the subs up just enough to give the bottom end the balls it needs in the bottom end.

That's a big slap on the hand !

Do you put the cheeze under the pasta when you do a Pizza ?

Bass frequencies is the hardest part to adjust in a room , it's the first thing to look after.
You have to EQ a room with a full range kit , with all the components ON.

Turning on the subs afterward is only looking for trouble.

Maybe you meant: "EQ the room with everything on and then if there is too much bass , only THEN , lower the Sub's power amps" ?

[Steve]

Originally Posted by Medford Bassman

I run post EQ on my Shuttle 6.0 DI

I'm using a VT bass through the return effects of the Shuttle.

Thanks for any help you can give.

So, you've beaten the signal to death with EQ before it even hits the board? The best advice I can give: Stop doing that.