How to hook this up?

Wademeister63 · #1 05-31-2009, 09:28 PM

I got into a new band that's quite a bit more ambitious than any of the projects I've worked on before (yeah, played around with is right, ya got me there =). These guys actually have a sound guy and in ear monitor setup, which is a whole new thing for me. What I'd like to do if possible is set the Bmax close to me and use it for a DI while also sending from the Bmax to the amp over by the guitarist so he can use my rig for a monitor.

I guess I could just use the Bmax for my DI and I'd be all set, except the guitarist can't use the in-ear monitors. He has a small speaker on a mic stand or something next to him and says he gets some bass through there but also asked me to turn up my rig at practice, so I'd like to help him out if I can. I'm thinking I could use the Bmax to adjust my sound going to the board and monitors and the guitarist can tweak my amp for whatever tone or volume suits him. Can this work and which outputs need to hook up to which inputs here? I'm thinking either of the effects loops need to either make a full loop probably, and the Bmax main output would be too hot for the amp instrument input...

Or do I just need to get a splitter box run a signal into both the bass rig for him and Bmax for me and the sound board? I'd prefer to run what I already have if I can do it without blowing something up.

Here's a pic of the preamp and head for reference:

Nick Kay · #2 05-31-2009, 10:02 PM

Use the DI Out to go to the FOH mixing board, use the Main Out to go to the rig. If you want your guitarist to be able to use the EQ, the Main Out will go to Return Pre. If you don't want him touching the EQ, Main Out will go to Return Post. You might need to put a dummy cable in the corresponding Send to trip an internal switch to activate the effects loop, but I don't know if it'll be necessary with that particular amp.

Wademeister63 · #3 05-31-2009, 10:14 PM

That makes sense Nick, thanks. I've got some George L's cable plugs hanging around so I can use one of those without the cable if it needs both sides of the loop plugged in, right?

Nick Kay · #4 05-31-2009, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wademeister63

That makes sense Nick, thanks. I've got some George L's cable plugs hanging around so I can use one of those without the cable if it needs both sides of the loop plugged in, right?

Yup. You could also use a plain old short patch cable. Shouldn't matter if the unplugged end touches anything, since shorting a line output almost never causes problems.

Wademeister63 · #5 06-01-2009, 08:35 AM

Well shoot, that didn't work either with or without the dummy plug. Seems like maybe the head really wants a signal at the instrument input. Can I safely patch the Bmax effects send to the regular input on the head? I assume the preamp main output is way too strong to patch directly into the head main input right?

Nick Kay · #6 06-01-2009, 01:21 PM

That's very odd. Unfortunately, the Effects Send and the Main Out on the BBE will be roughly the same level (ie: at or very near line-level). You can try either into Input 2 on the Hartke, but be prepared for some distortion.

I scanned the Hartke manual really quickly for some clues. I'm assuming you already putzed with the Audio Mute button or trying a dummy plug in the input? In either case, it seems that the Volume control isn't active if you plug into either Effects Return, so maybe going into the instrument input is the best call in this case.

Wademeister63 · #7 06-01-2009, 01:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Kay

I'm assuming you already putzed with the Audio Mute button or trying a dummy plug in the input? In either case, it seems that the Volume control isn't active if you plug into either Effects Return, so maybe going into the instrument input is the best call in this case.

Putzed around is about right. Tried a few things including dummy plugs in the head effects send as well as the Bmax return which yielded an EXCRUCIATING feedback squeal for about 1 second which was the amount of time it took me to shut it off in a panic. If someone were there with a camera I'm sure they could have had some hilarious pics

I don't think anything was damaged, will find out tonight. If the Bmax main out to the head main in doesn't do it, I'll probably just get a splitter or a regular DI box like the BDDI or something.

GregShadoan · #8 06-01-2009, 03:34 PM

Question. Does your sound engineer have control over the guitar players little hot spot speaker?

Wademeister63 · #9 06-01-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GregShadoan

Question. Does your sound engineer have control over the guitar players little hot spot speaker?

I'm not sure but I think his monitor gets the same signal as the wireless units. I'm pretty sure his monitor is set up like our in-ears, where we can adjust the vocal level on the receiver but not every single channel. I'll be able to learn more about it at rehearsal on Sunday. If I don't already have a good solution by Sunday I'll just drag a bunch of stuff with me and we'll get it worked out there.

GregShadoan · #10 06-01-2009, 04:33 PM

Ok, well if he has some control over it, I would try to make it as simple as possible. Bass into the BBE, BBE out into the bass amp in. Bass amp DI out to the console. If the guitar player has his own sub mixer, (which might be a good idea, a little pa as it were,) then send him the "line out" of your head. If the guitar player asked you to turn up, it most likely means he is used to a bit louder bass in the immedate area. I wouldn't spend too much time trying to over think this. Usually, the simplest plan is the best.

Normally, an IEM system will have the capiblilty to send different amounts of each channel into each separate IEM unit/mix. This is done using aux sends on a mixing console. Same concept as mixing wedge mixes. If the sound guy has your DI on a channel, then he should be able to send it to each mix at what ever level is required. Including the little hot spot gizmo. That is the way it should be done. If the console is out of mixes/aux sends, then something else might be going on here that we don't know.

Wademeister63 · #11 06-01-2009, 07:10 PM

Woohoo! Looks like the simplest approach will be ok. Bmax main out to Hartke instrument in seems ok

GregShadoan · #12 06-01-2009, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wademeister63

Woohoo! Looks like the simplest approach will be ok. Bmax main out to Hartke instrument in seems ok

Well, it's worth a try. If for some reason it is not what you want, you have some more complicated signal options, but it most likely will just be a pain, and add noise.

Wademeister63 · #13 06-04-2009, 11:19 PM

Reading through a bunch of threads here I learned something even better...

Plug the bass into one of the inputs on the Bmax and patch the other input on the Bmax to the amp input. Essentially the same as a Y cable sending the bass signal to two separate rigs. Never would have thought of connecting one input to another input but it makes sense and works perfect. I like it simple!