How would u explain(to a new bass student) the way to get a good bass tone onstage?

quadrogong · #1 11-21-2010, 01:51 PM

How should it sound?

How to set the amp ?( ok, flat always works, and describe the way to set the gain level etc)

How to set the bass? Let's say an active bass.
What to listen for as far as good tines and bad, mixing w bass pedal etc
How would u actually break all that info down?

My question is really a few questions in one, but has anyone ever written any of this down anywhere?

And how would u explain your step by step method?
I teach part time, and this comes up, a lot.
Also, how to join a band, ace auditions..it's of practical questions lime these..

I'd be curious to hear others methods, for an active bass, in a band or band rehearsal situation..how do u get a good tone?

And yes, " plug in"( if you're lucky and your gear us tight, and you're experienced)

.. but that's not always helpful to a student. how would u break it down?

JimmyM · #2 11-21-2010, 06:33 PM

good question. i probably wouldn't give them any advice except maybe to start with the amp set flat and move knobs from there, and maybe just use the active circuit on the bass for occasional boosts and cuts, and if they disappear from the mix they need to add more mids or cut bass and treble.

walterw · #3 11-21-2010, 07:01 PM

i'd hate to "over-advise" a newbie to the point they were afraid to explore their own sound and maybe find something cool.

in general, i'd say tell them not to EQ too much, and to listen to the whole band and try to make their tone fit the music.

JEBassman · #4 11-21-2010, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by walterw

i'd hate to "over-advise" a newbie to the point they were afraid to explore their own sound and maybe find something cool.

in general, I'd say tell them not to EQ too much, and to listen to the whole band and try to make their tone fit the music.

Excellent advice!! These words, together with getting playing experience wherever they can, should be enough to help a student go far.

timbledum · #5 11-21-2010, 07:19 PM

Maybe emphasize that there is no "good bass tone", but demonstrate how you would go about copping some common tones, perhaps from a cd or something. Like, this is what this sounds like, lets see if we can get close to it with our gear. It would (hopefully) get the student listening to more stuff to see what kind of tone they like. It amazes me the diversity of bass tone on records.

Like most music, most of this is listening.

BillyIVbass · #6 11-21-2010, 07:26 PM

I explain it as flat is home base and usually a safe bet, but experimenting is cool.

quadrogong · #7 11-21-2010, 08:32 PM

I usually tell 'e'm to keep the amp flat, how to set the gain on the amp..
And as far as the bass, start flat, and to bring the low end up a little, to taste.
I'm trying to concentrate on using our hands to get tones,
palm muting, fingerstyle, a pick.. how to accentuate and mute notes w the fretting hand,
.. Playing confidentally, consistently..

Today a student asked me what the pickup pan is for, why one would use one pickup or another.. And it opened up a can of worms..

IVe been teaching him got a year or so,
And he's getting really good,
It's hard to explain HOW to get a tone, without demonstrating.

JimmyM · #8 11-21-2010, 08:53 PM

there really is no other way than demonstrating it. but i figure i found my tone, let him find his.

OtterOnBass · #9 11-22-2010, 12:24 AM

Hmm. Well, I would make it simple. Turn up the bass until it covers the growl, then turn it down a hair so the growl is still present. If you can't hear your bass, turn up the mids.

Stumbo · #10 11-22-2010, 01:14 PM

If you can , I would go to his gig and get him set up correctly for the venue. Then, let him go FOH and you play his bass to let him hear how it sounds.

Best advice I can think of it to go wireless or get a 40 ft cord for sound check FOH and adjust from there. IMO, unless you go FOH or have some one letting you know what's happening FOH realtime, you just can't know exactly how you sit in the mix from the stage for a specific venue.

mambo4 · #11 11-22-2010, 01:51 PM

Start by explaining the difference between what comes out of the stage rig and what comes out of the PA/FOH... the differences involved between setting up to hear your self well and setting up to be heard well out in the room.

davidgoldman · #12 11-22-2010, 01:53 PM

My GK came with a chart showing different settings for different tones. I don't follow it but it would be a good place to start. The manuals can usualy be found on line.

tcald2004 · #13 11-22-2010, 08:32 PM

if he's a rock guy, i would tell him that unfortunately a good warm tone that is pleasing alone will often sound muddy or get buried in the mix. i observed this recently. a guy had a jazz bass through an alembic f1-x that made me so jealous when i heard it solo. but, in the band context it was buried. then an ashdown abm with the same cab was so awful, middy, and boxy alone but sat well in the mix. but my ashdown 210 abm combo is so boomy that i bypass the preamp and basically use it as a powered cab and use my sansamp bddi for the pre. its much more present that way. so many factors, though: room, material, band composition, volume, etc. but i would do that zen master thing and put it back on him, " you must look inside and find your own tone, grasshopper." :0)

plangentmusic · #14 11-22-2010, 08:38 PM

The biggest mistake they make (and a lot of more experienced guys) is to not put the master on 10 and adjust volume from the gain.

Marton · #15 11-22-2010, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

The biggest mistake they make (and a lot of more experienced guys) is to not put the master on 10 and adjust volume from the gain.

I seriously don't see why this is a mistake.

When I want to get a little bit more grind from my tube amo, I'm wrong ?

When I play my GK 700-RB-II at small volume levels with master and gain at 3, to be able to adjust my volume more easily, I'm wrong ?

puddin tame · #16 11-22-2010, 08:49 PM

Don't try and understand too much too fast. That's a lot of info that will take years before you actually have a solid grasp on it

Noose · #17 11-23-2010, 03:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by plangentmusic

The biggest mistake they make (and a lot of more experienced guys) is to not put the master on 10 and adjust volume from the gain.

I've never heard of doing this. What is the benefit? (forum newb)

Noose · #18 11-23-2010, 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcald2004

if he's a rock guy, i would tell him that unfortunately a good warm tone that is pleasing alone will often sound muddy or get buried in the mix. i observed this recently. a guy had a jazz bass through an alembic f1-x that made me so jealous when i heard it solo. but, in the band context it was buried. then an ashdown abm with the same cab was so awful, middy, and boxy alone but sat well in the mix. but my ashdown 210 abm combo is so boomy that i bypass the preamp and basically use it as a powered cab and use my sansamp bddi for the pre. its much more present that way. so many factors, though: room, material, band composition, volume, etc. but i would do that zen master thing and put it back on him, " you must look inside and find your own tone, grasshopper." :0)

This is so true. We have been using the same soundguy for the last 2 years at every gig. I am easy to please so i just trusted him when he said everything was sounding good out front. Then one day I decide to do our soundcheck sitting out where the bar patrons were and holy **** did the bass sound bad. I had my rig set the way I liked it, but it just wasn't working. Had to boost the mids and actually cut some bass in order for it to cut through the mix and not sound like a muddy mess.

behemecoytl · #19 11-23-2010, 04:04 PM

besides EQ adjustments, there are other tone factors as well- the bass itself, the strings (flats or rounds?), the amp (tube or solid state?), the cab. I think you could explain to your student using examples like Jaco or Jamerson. If he likes Jaco's tone, then it's Roundwounds and rolling to the bridge pup and fingering by the bridge... if it's Jamerson, then it's flats, rolling to the neck (or getting a p-bass).

i think you could introduce your student to the various tools of tone, explaining what they do and let him figure it out. the EQ, IMHO, is the last step for tone hounding.

MNAirHead · #20 11-24-2010, 09:26 AM

for someone new?

Send a neutral/flat DI signal to the sound guy and then do what the sound guy says.... use the amp as a stage monitor and know that the FOH never sounds the same (or should it)..

Commonly this is what's requested
Turn down amp levels.. remove clank sounds with an EQ.

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Hopefully the said new gigger will not bring a ton of junk (gear and opinions).