I have a question on live/practice drums

slap-a-da-bass · #1 04-20-2011, 08:59 AM

Thanks to those of you who have posted with my mixer volume/feedback issues...

I've had off work this week, & have really been working on fine tunning my system. In my practice space, I've moved my mains up on stands & to one end of the room for vocal monitoring, I EQ'd them for the room & took out a few hot spots for feed back, Seems to be working really well. I also have a wedge monitor on the floor on the other end of the room for the drummer. For that monitor I used an EQ to take out the hot spots also. Pretty amazing, the monitor is 4' from the drummers mic & zero feed back, excellent!

So on to today's problems. Our practice space is in my basement. The room is 12x24 8' ceilings, everything is drywall or brick. The room naturally has quite a bit of ring, and seems the target freq's are between 200 -3000. The highs really roll off in the room, & the mids are strong, so I EQ for this. As I'm tuning in the system, I come back to the same problem...drums. I've been testing today, I hit any of the heads with a quick snap, & it rings out for 4-5 sec, so when you couple this with the room & vocal mics picking this up, it's a huge problem. I've talked with my drummer a while back about tightening things up, & even bought him some moon gel. My question, is this common for a kit? does it need to be tunned? should something be stuffed in all the drums, just like the kick? Is it more room treatment? How about a barrier of treatment around the kit? If I was a drummer, I would want my hits to have a fast response, not something that gets mushy on the toms. On a side note, he used some of the moon gel, but it didn't really take care of the problem. His kit is pretty good, it's a good quality Pearl, double floor toms.

Thanks,

WalterBush · #2 04-20-2011, 09:08 AM

Noise gates.

The Presonus ACP88 does a great job of compressing and gating drumkits. Otherwise, your option is to not mike the kit, dampen the drums to the point they have no sustain, or detune them so that all you get is a thud. Drummers usually object to the last two options.

slap-a-da-bass · #3 04-20-2011, 10:56 AM

I didn't even get to the micing part yet, just accousticly in the room they ring out. Even when the drums are not in use, the vocal monitor output is enough the get the toms rattling, then that signal gets back into the drummers vocal mic, & it just sounds terrible. As I'm typing this, it just hit me about the gate, it would help ignore low signal on that vocal mic, correct?

StuartV · #4 04-20-2011, 11:12 AM

My practice room is much smaller than you're talking about. I tune my drums for the strongest fundamental and sustain. I don't have this problem. My floor is carpet and the walls and ceiling are drywall, though. And I don't (currently) have a vocal mic for myself when I'm drumming.

I do use Moon gels on all my drums (except the kick), but they don't really do much to the fundamental or the sustain. They just eliminate the higher-pitched ringing overtones. I use half a piece of gel on each of the high toms and a full piece on the two floor toms.

Do you have your vocal mics set up where the mics are pointed towards the drum kit (i.e. the singers' backs are to the drummer) when you're practicing. I would think not, but if so, change that! Have everybody facing each other.

If the vocal mics are pointed away from the drum kit and they're still picking up that much bleed from the drums, I would try several things. One, turn down the input gain on the vocals mics and tell the singers to get closer to the mics and/or sing with some balls. Two, possibly try some wall treatments. Either baffles in the corners nearest/behind the drum kit, some kind of tapestry or carpet on the wall behind the drum kit, and/or either of those things on the wall opposite the drums (i.e. the wall that the vocal mics are pointed at).

Oh, and point the monitors away from the drum kit or at least not straight at it. Check to see if it's just the drummer's monitor speaker that is causing the problem. I use IEM, even for practice, so I never had a speaker blasting stuff directly at my kit.

slap-a-da-bass · #5 04-20-2011, 12:33 PM

About the mic facing the drums, yes, we are set up like we would be at a gig. The vocal mics, except for the drummer are 10' away from the kit. That is something I'd consider changing, but that is really difficult with the room layout, if we all faced the drummer, then the mains would be in back of us pointing right into the mics, & I don't have room on the other end to flip the drummer or mains. Another reason we practice gig like, is we don't want the stringed instruments relying on each other visually, which I understand is a whole different problem.
It's mostly the drummer's monitor causing the problems, I'll try & change the angle or put it up on a stick.

StuartV · #6 04-20-2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slap-a-da-bass

Another reason we practice gig like, is we don't want the stringed instruments relying on each other visually, which I understand is a whole different problem.

In my opinion, this is a non-problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by slap-a-da-bass

About the mic facing the drums, yes, we are set up like we would be at a gig. The vocal mics, except for the drummer are 10' away from the kit.

This is clearly (in my mind, anyway) a major problem. Solve this. Don't worry about the other (non-)problem.

Get rid of the drummer's monitor. In your practice space, he shouldn't need it anyway (I am a drummer saying this, by the way).

What about putting your speakers that you are using on each side of the room, between the drummer and the rest, on the floor, on their sides, angled up?

slap-a-da-bass · #7 04-20-2011, 02:03 PM

yep, the more I've been thinking about it, I'm gonna figure a way to get the mains by the drummer.

Here's the plan,

Drummer against the back wall, I can put a speaker on stands on each side of him. The rest of use will face him when we practice and be about 10' from the speakers with the mic's facing away from the drums & mains. That should take care of some of the drum bleed & help with feedback also. The drummer likes a monitor so he can clearly hear the vocals & his own vocals.

Sound better?

StuartV · #8 04-21-2011, 11:04 AM

Sounds like a much better starting point!

If the drummer's going to sing and be picky about his monitor mix in practice, he should start thinking about a good quality headset mic and some In Ear Monitors....

StuartV · #9 04-21-2011, 11:05 AM

Oh, and just make sure the mains aren't situated where the drummer's vocal mic are going to be picking them up.

slap-a-da-bass · #10 04-21-2011, 11:16 AM

I've been doing more level setting & testing today. I have the mains pretty even with the front edge of the drums, 12' apart, which is the vocal monitering for everone except the drummer. I have the bass amp below one of the mains, and both guitar amps below the other main, side by side. It's really hard for the guitar players to stand on top thier amps and hear the other players amp, this way everyone will hear the same mix from the same location. I do have vocals & guitar going in the PA, but put the guitars in the moniter mix for the drummer. I also changed the placement of the monitor for the drummer, much less rattle from the kit. We're not practicing for another week, so I won't know how it works with the full group till then, but as I'm testing all the vocal mics, & amps & such, it seems pretty good.

Thanks for the suggestions