ideas for PA subwoofer amps

[illusha]

INFO : I am building a large PA system to be used for DJ and EDM music... the mids and highs are all taken care of (biamped Peavey SP4 and SP2 speakers)... my mains power section consists of 16 RAMSA 9220 amps (600 watts into 8 ohm bridged) driving each 15" driver separately... I have several 4-way DSP's also made by RAMSA...

GOAL: I also have 8 Peavey SP-FH hornloaded 18" subs that I am looking to purchase some amplification for - they take 800 wrms / 1600 wprg / 3200 wmax - so I was thinking an amp that puts out 1200-1600 watts or so at 8 ohms - either per channel, or bridged... Have been online for several days, researching the currently available models - looks like everyone is switching to the lightweight Class D amps... so my first question is regarding "traditional" vs "switch-mode" power supplies for subwoofer use - any opinions?

As far as the specific models, I am trying to stay on the amplifier budget of around $3-500 per each subwoofer... so, if I can get a 2-channel amp that can do 8-ohm stereo with my power requirements, it can be twice as expensive ($600-1000)...


So far, I've been considering Peavey IPR 6000 (stereo), Peavey CS4080hz (stereo), Mackie FRS2800, Crown XTi200, Crown XLS-2000, Crown XLS-602, Crown XS-500, B52 US3000, QSC PLX1602, and Behringer EP2500 or EP4000... I am leaning towards Peavey, wishing for Crest, and considering Crown...

any other ideas, comments, suggestions, words of advice? any specific brand or models? should I find some solid used amps (weight is not an issue), or should I go for the new digital technologies? I need something that performs well at low frequencies specifically... thanks in advance!

[Zooberwerx]

Buy used and buy locally. I'm a big fan of the QSC RMX boat anchors; I use 4 in our FOH rig. The 2450 will push 1300 watts / bridged into a single 8 ohm load...well within the specified range. I've seen them go for $300-325 so two units would be within you budget, as well.

Riis

[walterw]

if weight is not an issue, you might find folks looking to unload 100lb monsters like crown macro 3600VZs, 5000VZs, QSC RMX 4050s and 5050s, big crest amps and the like, as the sound companies all move towards stupid-powerful class-D stuff.

with EDM you can't skimp on the subs!

[mcapote]

i use an XTI2000 on my subs

[illusha]

still considering MA5050 and EP4000, but would hate to purchase cheap amps with chinese parts, for not much less $ than their better-known competitors...

IPR6000 comes out in March, I can wait till then, will be $650 - if it's worth it, they are too new to know... there's always CS4080hz, but it's expensive... XTi2000 is down to $450, but I heard they don't measure well at low frequencies... XLS2000 is about the same price, but how does it compare to XTi and what is different???

there are some good deals on Crown XS500 and Crest CC5500 or CC1800 - any opinions about XS or CC series???

[Phalex]

I'd avoid Behringer.

Have you considered Carvin DCM's? I own a few of them, and they give great bang for the buck.

[Vinny D]

Originally Posted by illusha

IPR6000 comes out in March, I can wait till then, will be $650 -

What year
This series of amplifiers has had the longest delays I have ever seen.

[illusha]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Have you considered Carvin DCM's? I own a few of them, and they give great bang for the buck.

that's a great suggestion, thanks! I haven't considered those, but I just looked them up, and the DCM 1504L seems like a good option... Class A/B instead of D seems attractive to me... has anyone bench tested these DCM amps?

[GregShadoan]

I would think as a general rule, 1000 watts per side (or more) power amp, into 4 ohms, and you will certainly get what you pay for in terms of quality.
Crest 8001, Macro tech 3600, something in that area/range for used (read cheaper) would work.

[illusha]

I really would prefer 8 ohms per chanel for hornloaded subs, 1400 watts please =)

XTi or XLS or XS or CC or PLX or RMX or IPR or CS or DCM ???

[walterw]

1400W into 8Ω?

you're looking at big-dollar amps (the newest, most powerful amp QSC makes, the pl380, does 1500 into 8Ω per side) or one amp bridged per sub (their much cheaper RMX 2450 will bridge and get you about that from the whole amp.) a stack of bridged amps needs lots of wall power.

with behringer, it's best to buy two of whatever you need, for when one dies on you.

[RedLeg]

Originally Posted by Phalex

Have you considered Carvin DCM's? I own a few of them, and they give great bang for the buck.

theyre greeaat!

[illusha]

Originally Posted by walterw

1400W into 8Ω? you're looking at big-dollar amps (the newest, most powerful amp QSC makes, the pl380, does 1500 into 8Ω per side) or one amp bridged per sub (their much cheaper RMX 2450 will bridge and get you about that from the whole amp.) a stack of bridged amps needs lots of wall power. with behringer, it's best to buy two of whatever you need, for when one dies on you.

I prefer 8 ohms for hornloaded applications - and I need 1400+ watts each, and the more headroom the better... the only amps that can do that per channel - and within my budget - that I know of - are ipr6000, cs4080hz, and ma5050... the rest I've mentioned in my posts would need to be bridged (and so there would be twice as many), but as long as the price is right I have plenty or racks and room in my van...

getting power is not an issue, I usually set up from a generator or in an industrial warehouse, sometimes in a club setting... I plan on using 4 spider distro boxes 50A 240v each... now, as far as getting clean power, that I am skeptical about - which is why I wanted to figure out the differences between the "old" and "new" amplifier designs, all these turrodial vs switching power supply stuff, as well as class A/B vs H vs D vs whatever is the newest hottest sh!t

Originally Posted by RedLeg

theyre greeaat!

thanks! I am definitely considering Carvin DCM's - any more reviews of those? has anyone bench tested them? are they reliable? can they take full blast for extended periods of time? how do they perform at low frequencies? =)

[MuzikMan]

I have road tested a Carvin DCM1540L for about 1.5 years and a DCM2000L for about 6 months with no issues watsoever. I've never performed bench tests but to my ears they sound exactly like my old QSC RMX1450 when used as a bass rig.

They have my endorsemet, for whatever that's worth.

[illusha]

have you ever ran those Carvins at full blast for extended periods of time? what kind of speakers do they power? any line voltage issues that you've noticed?

[Gizmot]

The older Crown Macrotech amps like the 2400 and 3600 are really good amps - far, far better than anything Crown makes now. In my opinion, they sound a LOT better than anything QSC has ever made. QSC is reliable, but aren't the last word in sound quality. The Peavey, Carvin and Behringer amps are not serious PA amps (show me how many major tours have used them?). If you want new, good amps, look at Lab Gruppen and Powersoft.

[illusha]

I've looked at both Macrotech and Microtech, which are similar, but both of them are out of my price range... the best I could do is finding some used ones on eBay, but then there's this gamble of buying something that's been toured around and abused by roadies... I've also considered Crest CA-series, which are good, but I can only afford Crest CC-series, if that... Lab Gruppen and Powersoft are also pretty spendy... I agree that Behringer and Carvin are not something you often see on any major tours, but Peavey is pretty common, isn't it?

[MuzikMan]

I am interested in hearing more about exactly what makes the old Macrotechs so much better than everything QSC has ever made.

[walterw]

yeah, me too.

(also, i suspect lab gruppen and powersoft are wildly out of the price range here.)

[illusha]

BUMPing the thread... any other opinions?