IEM mixing: is there a decent affordable option?

KingRazor · #1 11-30-2010, 10:17 AM

Me and some friends are seriously considering starting a band, and I like the idea of using IEMs.

I'm trying to figure out the best way to make it work. All the instruments are going to be hooked up to a mixing board for recording purposes. Is it possible to give everyone their own monitor mix or would I want a seperate board dedicated to that?

SteveC · #2 11-30-2010, 10:24 AM

There are many options. I think the simplest one is to get a mixer with the same number of pre-fader aux sends as you have band members (lets say 4) and hopefully a couple more for any effects you may use - like reverb and compression.

Next get 4 IEM units and a rack case to put them in, along with maybe a compressor and reverb unit. This can sit next to your board. You may also fins a mixer that has effects built in which is handy. Yamaha for example has some nice stuff.

You will run a cable from the Aux Outs (1-4) to the appropriate IEM Transmitter. Done.

For a mix, each band member can now adjust their Aux channel levels for everything on the board. I wish all my bands would use this (or a similar) system.

KingRazor · #3 11-30-2010, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

There are many options. I think the simplest one is to get a mixer with the same number of pre-fader aux sends as you have band members (lets say 4) and hopefully a couple more for any effects you may use - like reverb and compression.

Next get 4 IEM units and a rack case to put them in, along with maybe a compressor and reverb unit. This can sit next to your board. You may also fins a mixer that has effects built in which is handy. Yamaha for example has some nice stuff.

You will run a cable from the Aux Outs (1-4) to the appropriate IEM Transmitter. Done.

For a mix, each band member can now adjust their Aux channel levels for everything on the board. I wish all my bands would use this (or a similar) system.

Alright that sounds like the method that makes the most sense.

I'm used to working on a 48-channel mixer and a seperate monitor mixing board with the sound system at my church. But I don't need anything nearly that complicated for my little band project. Thanks.

KingRazor · #4 11-30-2010, 11:00 AM

Well, I thought that was a simple solution, but finding a mixing board with more than one AUX send can get very expensive, very quickly. It's looking to be $600+ for a board with more than a single AUX output.

Are there any reasonably priced mixing boards out there with at least 5 individual AUX sends? Please let me know if you know of any, I'm going to keep looking but it looks like it's gonna be pricey.

crijan · #5 11-30-2010, 11:09 AM

I just set up an IEM system and the cheapest board of the one's we were choosing from was over $1600. That was for a Crest X20RM.

If you're just doing recording and not looking to use it for live performance, you could use your recording software on your PC to do the monitor mixes for you. Get something like a Presonus Firestudio for your audio interface to the PC and you could have 8 channels in and 8 channels out. Then send your channels out to a Headphone amplifier. If you need more than 8 channels in, you can use submixers before the audio interface.

KingRazor · #6 11-30-2010, 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crijan

If you're just doing recording and not looking to use it for live performance, you could use your recording software on your PC to do the monitor mixes for you. Get something like a Presonus Firestudio for your audio interface to the PC and you could have 8 channels in and 8 channels out. Then send your channels out to a Headphone amplifier. If you need more than 8 channels in, you can use submixers before the audio interface.

Alright, that sounds like the way to go.

So, say I need 10 channels in and 5 channels out. I have an M-audio fast track pro http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/FastTrackPro/(I don't actually have one yet but I'm buying one anyway)

And I'd probably be running SONAR (one of the cheaper versions, LE or whatever it's called)

How would I set this all up?

crijan · #7 11-30-2010, 11:59 AM

That M-Audio Fast Track has two mono inputs and two stereo outputs. I'm assuming you'll have another mixer that will be feeding it's stereo output to the two mono inputs of the M-Audio Fast Track. Using this system, and mixing monitors in the PC, you'd only be able to do two monitor mixes that are simply different mixes of whatever left/right mix you send to the Fast Track. To multitrack your band, you would have to record one scratch track of all of your instruments and then come back and individually re-record your individual parts one by one (or two by two).

If you're trying to multi-track record a full-band "live" (simultaneously), you'll need to buy a recording interface with more inputs and outputs. Something like a Presonus Project will do 8 mic/line inputs, 8-10 outputs, plus two more inputs if you have a SPDIF instrument (keyboard?). The software that comes with it can do the five stereo monitor mixes, but you may need headphone amps to get them out of the outs of the interface. You can find these used in good condition on ebay for $200-$300 with the software included.

KingRazor · #8 11-30-2010, 12:50 PM

I don't think we'd be recording with any SPDIF instruments, I guess we'll just have to use fewer drum mics.

That looks like it should work. What should I be looking for for headphone amps?

Edit: Something like this? http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/HeadAmp6Pro/

crijan · #9 11-30-2010, 01:58 PM

Yeah, something like that or you can get smaller individual ones to split the people around the room more efficiently.

fokof · #10 11-30-2010, 11:45 PM

I use a MOTU 828mkIII.
It's 20 Ins , 22 outs total, has a full parametric 6 band EQ + comp/limiter on all I/O + reverb.
It's a small stand alone digital board in a 1 rack space unit.

Retail is around 750 , you have 2 preamps , just have another 8 preamp rack ( there is plenty around 400 )

I brought the computer for the first gig then saved the preset and then the computer wasn't needed anymore.

KingRazor · #11 12-01-2010, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fokof

I use a MOTU 828mkIII.
It's 20 Ins , 22 outs total, has a full parametric 6 band EQ + comp/limiter on all I/O + reverb.
It's a small stand alone digital board in a 1 rack space unit.

Retail is around 750 , you have 2 preamps , just have another 8 preamp rack ( there is plenty around 400 )

I brought the computer for the first gig then saved the preset and then the computer wasn't needed anymore.

Not bad.

Honestly, I really wish they could just make a cheap board with 10 or 12 inputs, 5 or 6 outputs and maybe some limiters since, at least for this application, I don't need much in the way of effects or EQ. Obviously a board like that wouldn't work well for gigging, but it'd be more than sufficient for recording, since I have most of the effects and EQ I need with SONAR.

WayneP · #12 12-01-2010, 06:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Well, I thought that was a simple solution, but finding a mixing board with more than one AUX send can get very expensive, very quickly. It's looking to be $600+ for a board with more than a single AUX output.

Are there any reasonably priced mixing boards out there with at least 5 individual AUX sends? Please let me know if you know of any, I'm going to keep looking but it looks like it's gonna be pricey.

Check eBay or Craigslist for a Mackie 1604 VLZ. Has 4 AUX outs, and you can push it to 6 if every send doesn’t require every channel. You should be able to pick one up for $2-300. ART, Rolls, Behringer and others make affordable multi-channel headphone amps. You could be up and running for well under $500, save the cost of the earbuds.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

KingRazor · #13 12-01-2010, 11:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WayneP

Check eBay or Craigslist for a Mackie 1604 VLZ. Has 4 AUX outs, and you can push it to 6 if every send doesn’t require every channel. You should be able to pick one up for $2-300. ART, Rolls, Behringer and others make affordable multi-channel headphone amps. You could be up and running for well under $500, save the cost of the earbuds.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

Interesting. I know the singers would each want the other vocalists in their ears and probably the keys. The guitarists would probably want their guitars, the vocals and maybe the keys. I'd want the snare, vocals and at least one lead instrument and the drummer would probably want just about everything.

Geddyfleaharris · #14 12-02-2010, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveC

There are many options. I think the simplest one is to get a mixer with the same number of pre-fader aux sends as you have band members (lets say 4) and hopefully a couple more for any effects you may use - like reverb and compression.

Next get 4 IEM units and a rack case to put them in, along with maybe a compressor and reverb unit. This can sit next to your board. You may also fins a mixer that has effects built in which is handy. Yamaha for example has some nice stuff.

You will run a cable from the Aux Outs (1-4) to the appropriate IEM Transmitter. Done.

For a mix, each band member can now adjust their Aux channel levels for everything on the board. I wish all my bands would use this (or a similar) system.

Nice. I have been looking at an option like this for my band. This really simplifies what I need to be looking for.

I am using an Allen and Heath MixWiz 16/2. It has 6 aux's so we could set this up pretty easy.

Thanks Steve!

WayneP · #15 12-02-2010, 09:45 AM

Don’t forget, if you're talking a dedicated mixer for the monitors, you can “milk” two additional mixes from the main outputs, using the pan knobs. That could possibly let you get by with a cheaper mixer with fewer sends.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt

Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

fokof · #16 12-03-2010, 06:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Obviously a board like that wouldn't work well for gigging, ......

Well I use it for gigging to mix the IEM for the last two years.
It's really setup and forget.

If you have the type of gig where you always need to adjust the mixes , it's not for you but if your setup/instrumentation is always the same , it's worth a look.

We used to have a 01V and the 828mkIII sounds A LOT better.

KingRazor · #17 12-03-2010, 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fokof

Well I use it for gigging to mix the IEM for the last two years.
It's really setup and forget.

If you have the type of gig where you always need to adjust the mixes , it's not for you but if your setup/instrumentation is always the same , it's worth a look.

We used to have a 01V and the 828mkIII sounds A LOT better.

I was referring to the board I "wish" existed. Not the interface you mentioned.

I'm not looking for a board for gigging though, I'm just looking for a board or interface that can do live recordings of at least 10 inputs and has at least 5 AUX sends so that each member can have their own individual mix.

MNAirHead · #18 12-05-2010, 04:03 PM

I folded my last band and started from the ground up to be 100% ampless and IEM.

Drums are VDrums

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The Motu is a GREAT option...

WE use this or Rolls PM 351/PM350 for the More me option..

I go from this to a Wireless

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I'd really suggest drawing it out .. you can dump a lot of money on bad internet advice for this.

OUr band spent about $300 for the wired version.. then wireless is a self option

PM me if you want to banter specifics..

Ben Clarke · #19 12-09-2010, 11:01 AM

Check out the Shure Auxpander to add aux sends. I used to sell the snot out of them when I was selling to churches.

KingRazor · #20 12-20-2010, 09:40 AM

Ok so I've been looking around and I think that if I get this:

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/PV14USB

and this:

http://www.instrumentalsavings.com/S...2auxpander.htm

Hopefully, that would do everything I need. Plus, it'd be under $800.

This is the cheapest solution I could find that would allow me to:

Have 10 mic inputs
Have 5 AUX sends that each have a seperate mix
Record all inputs live