IEM TRICKS - From Email requests.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I'm trying to come up with a solution to use one ears at clubs with installed sound and a "soundman". My thought was to use a 8 channel TRS to XLR snake, run out of a pre-fade aux on the house Board into my Mackie DL1608, then out to my IEMs. The 1608 would be at the desk, and I would control it from the wireless iPad from on stage as normal. Anyone see any kinks in that plan?

"Easiest" way is to plan connections.... Rack mount your iem gear.... Then supply a mixed feed to a single channel

Supplying complexity to a stranger doesn't work as well

[MNAirHead]

Basically dial in the system ---- then hand the iPad to the house guy

[steve_rolfeca]

Really?

House engineer is an old-school audio guy, with a couple of racks of processing gear hooked up to his trusty Allen & Heath.

Band waltzes in, announces that everything is on line one, hands him an iPad running control software for a digital board that's only been on the market a few months, and tells him to get on with mixing the show?

Good luck with that!

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

"Easiest" way is to plan connections.... Rack mount your iem gear.... Then supply a mixed feed to a single channel

Supplying complexity to a stranger doesn't work as well

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Basically dial in the system ---- then hand the iPad to the house guy

I know you're trying to be helpful, but often times you seem to be speaking in code. Maybe it's just my ignorance on the subject.

Handing the sound man my iPad just isn't going to happen....they'd just laugh at me. I'm looking for a way to get a signal from the sound man and handle it by myself from there. If anyone has actually done this, I'd like to know what setup they used.

My thought was to take a direct signal from the board from the individual channels I would need to make an effective mix in ear. I mistakenly said I would take it from the Aux above, but I would really need a direct out from each channel I need. Some boards have this capacity, but some don't. It might not work....I'm just thinking it through. If the only solution is to take a single channel, then I might as well use the stage monitors supplied by the house.

Edited to add: I had contemplated the splitter option someone mentioned above, and it's a good one. I'm going to discuss it with one of the sound men I work with this weekend, but I'm guessing they'll have some level of objection to anything that gets in their chain between the stage and the board......

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

...My thought was to take a direct signal from the board from the individual channels I would need to make an effective mix in ear.

...I would really need a direct out from each channel I need. Some boards have this capacity, but some don't.

...I had contemplated the splitter option someone mentioned above, and it's a good one. I'm going to discuss it with one of the sound men I work with this weekend, but I'm guessing they'll have some level of objection to anything that gets in their chain between the stage and the board......

You might have more luck with a splitter than other options, simply because it's familiar territory. It's how the sources for live recordings are usually grabbed, and how a sidestage monitor system would work.

Still, what will work with a familiar sound guy at a venue where you play frequently, is not the same thing as what will work if you play at a string of different local/regional venues, or you are out on tour.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

I know you're trying to be helpful, but often times you seem to be speaking in code. Maybe it's just my ignorance on the subject.

Handing the sound man my iPad just isn't going to happen....they'd just laugh at me. I'm looking for a way to get a signal from the sound man and handle it by myself from there. If anyone has actually done this, I'd like to know what setup they used.

My thought was to take a direct signal from the board from the individual channels I would need to make an effective mix in ear. I mistakenly said I would take it from the Aux above, but I would really need a direct out from each channel I need. Some boards have this capacity, but some don't. It might not work....I'm just thinking it through. If the only solution is to take a single channel, then I might as well use the stage monitors supplied by the house.

Edited to add: I had contemplated the splitter option someone mentioned above, and it's a good one. I'm going to discuss it with one of the sound men I work with this weekend, but I'm guessing they'll have some level of objection to anything that gets in their chain between the stage and the board......

My sincerest apologies on the "cryptic" replies... I type 400 wpm on a computer.... can do about 10 on an ipod/ipad/phone.

Hate to say this --- you were baited and took it. My apologies if you believe this is manipulative.

The sincerest "truth" is that IF you're not paying the sound guy and bringing your own gear, then you're kind of at the whim of what they want to do.

It's rare to have a real-world installation (for most of us) that have enough time for a splitter in your case... venues change... some have floor dugouts etc.

When I was researching this.... stadium acts commonly will have an on-staff guy who only mixes monitors... their "pass through (recording) mixer" will forward an entire signal to the FOH team (commonly local)

I have had mild success with pro sound guys allowing me to consolidate one single send that they insert into their board. The request has been to let them control it for the master channel. They loose ability to "really" use their processing rack.

Example... ask a sound guy if they "really" want a DI directly after your bass or if they'd like you to process the signal and mic an amp...... For the "foundation" tracks, they commonly want a simple signal chain.

[MNAirHead]

COMPARING WIRELESS TRANSMITTERS & RECEIVERS ... worth reading

who do you guys like for in-ear monitoring systems?

[derrico1]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

My thought was to take a direct signal from the board from the individual channels I would need to make an effective mix in ear. .

On a lot of boards, the direct-out jack doubles as an insert jack, so giving it up to run the bassist's IEMs would mean giving up the ability to use inserts on individual tracks. You won't walk into many clubs and get this accommodation. (Even if the FOH were on your band's payroll, most wouldn't want you to do this.)

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Hate to say this --- you were baited and took it. My apologies if you believe this is manipulative.

Manipulative? No. Pointless?.........

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by derrico1

On a lot of boards, the direct-out jack doubles as an insert jack, so giving it up to run the bassist's IEMs would mean giving up the ability to use inserts on individual tracks. You won't walk into many clubs and get this accommodation. (Even if the FOH were on your band's payroll, most wouldn't want you to do this.)

Good to know, thanks.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Manipulative? No. Pointless?.........

The point was thinking through the reality of it

I'm back in a mobile so will wait until on a computer where I can type void of cryptic-ism

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by musicman7722

My band uses a 16 channel poor mans splitter snake. We plug into that and it goes to the foh snake and to our digital mixer. I was using a presonus 16.0.2 but have moved to a mackie 1608. Each user has their own aux mix which there are 6. And this is saved so auto comes up when I load the scene. It is possible foe each user to adjust their aux mix in real time via an iPad. This is a fast setup and flexible. We also use it for rehearsals. Every place we have used it with a house foh setup they have allowed us to use our snake and they have no other connections to deal with for channel adjustment.

Snake is around $200 and mixer and iPad is around $1400. Each user can choose their own item connection. Wired or wireless and their own buds.

Chris

Actually, this answers my question before I even asked!! Thanks for the info. I thin this would do exactly what I want.

[OmeDunk]

Pulled the trigger and ordered a Rolls pm351 and all the cables and stuff.

Chain will be:
1) bass > fx > amp (fx loop out) > pm351
2) vocals mic > pm351 (mic thru out) > PA
3) ambient mic > (line input)

Earbuds are custom moulded.

Still looking for a small and cheap limiter

[MNAirHead]

Small Cheap Limiter.... keep your eyes open... during the 90s the "mini" stuff was the rage.... Samsom had the S Series... Alesis had the "Microverb" etc.... Roland had one... it was pro audio with a small foot print.

Now here's the issue with non-integrated limiters..

Folks just guess when they're setup... playing a guessing game.

The reason I keep coming back to integrated units like a PSM200 body pack is that an audiologist helped engineer it.... I've NEVER used a non-integrated limiter system that didn't have some quirk.

[sweetthing06]

I play at church and we were given the option to use wireless IEMs as long as we brought our own buds. I had the shure 315 and I didn't like them at all. I even got the custom sleeves thinking that would help. I recently bought the atrios and I love them. At home I practice with an Ampeg 112 combo and use the headphone out and it sounds great. At church I get nothing but really bad distortion from my bass. Everything else sound fine, even the drums. We are using Galaxy audio as1000 (I know they are cheap). My signal is bass >polytune mini >VT bass>Countryman type 85. I know it's not the seal on my buds because at home it sounds awesome. After reading this and everything else I can find on this, I'm thinking the signal that is being sent from the board is too hot. I will be experimenting tomorrow, but would love some thoughts/advice.
PS: I will be getting a Rolls 351 ASAP and probably a shure psm 200, but I'm hoping I can get a decent sound until then. Thanks

[sweetthing06]

So we've decided that the Galaxy audio as1000 is just crap. I can't wait until I can buy a psm200. I could at least hear myself today but it still didn't sound very good.

[musicman7722]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Actually, this answers my question before I even asked!! Thanks for the info. I thin this would do exactly what I want.

This is what I do. I have a poor man splinter snake and the new mackie 1608. I also have a presonus 16.0.2 that I used to use. When I would go to a gig with their own foh I would find the engineer and explain to him what I wanted todo. In every instance they had no problem. So the band would plug into my splitter snake. One. End would plug into foh snake and I would help the engineer with that. Other side went to me and into my digital mixer.

It really is easy and I think if you are open with an onsite foh engineer they will work with you as this system does not impact thei system at all and can save them some headaches.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by musicman7722

This is what I do. I have a poor man splinter snake and the new mackie 1608. I also have a presonus 16.0.2 that I used to use. When I would go to a gig with their own foh I would find the engineer and explain to him what I wanted todo. In every instance they had no problem. So the band would plug into my splitter snake. One. End would plug into foh snake and I would help the engineer with that. Other side went to me and into my digital mixer.

It really is easy and I think if you are open with an onsite foh engineer they will work with you as this system does not impact thei system at all and can save them some headaches.

To be more specific, they don't have to waste time and energy on providing/tweaking your monitor mix. Could be a great way to sell it to the house technician...

For anyone going this route, the key is that you must promise to go 1 to 1 with the channel assignments on the splitter, and live up to the agreement. If you mess up the sound guy's cherished channel mapping, you'll turn him off before you've even gotten started.

[heinpete]

Originally Posted by musicman7722

This is what I do. I have a poor man splinter snake and the new mackie 1608. I also have a presonus 16.0.2 that I used to use. When I would go to a gig with their own foh I would find the engineer and explain to him what I wanted todo. In every instance they had no problem. So the band would plug into my splitter snake. One. End would plug into foh snake and I would help the engineer with that. Other side went to me and into my digital mixer.

It really is easy and I think if you are open with an onsite foh engineer they will work with you as this system does not impact thei system at all and can save them some headaches.

...but how do you get into the monitor amp line of their FOH if you want to use their wedges for example?

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by heinpete

...but how do you get into the monitor amp line of their FOH if you want to use their wedges for example?

Why would you need to?.

Inserting your own splitter and mixer between all the DI and mic'd sources and their snake, means that
1. You have individual control of every channel for personal IEM mixes.
2. Their entire system is still intact, including monitors.

If someone in the band is not on in-ears, then the house sound guy does their wedge mix, same as ever.