IEM TRICKS - From Email requests.

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Can you get a recording device connected to a laptop .... Connected to the board

Sure, I have a digital recorder.

[MNAirHead]

Rip - thx for the clarification questions


Hoping this helps someone

[Rip Topaz]

Sure, hoping it helps ME as well. I'm working on setting up a wired in ear system using a separate mixer. Only thing missing is a limiter, and after the damage caused by the spike I took through the Aviom at church, I'm taking NO more chances.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

Sure, I have a digital recorder.

Hard connect/wire it to your iem feed

Set up a channel with full-spectrum classical music

Set the classical channel to its highest non-clipping setting

Now have someone mute the channel

Go back to your iem point (DO NOT put them on)

Turn down (not off your limiter)

Unmute the loud classical music- record the db level

Now turn the limiter back on

Go back to your iem point (DO NOT put them on) - record the db level

-------

There are various ways limiters treat abnormal spikes .... Some mute everything.... Some distort.... Some drop the level... Some are broken

Don't trust/play/test with your ears

--------


For oscilliscopes.... Old hp are cheap... Many higher end interfaces have them built in (motu cuemix etc)

For RTA.... You can get 4 space TOA w/mic for about $10 used.... There are free iPod apps... Etc

----

For permanent installations I ALWAYS pop $10 and put in a calibrated mic/RTA ..... (Especially for worship) --- why trust your ears???

[steve_rolfeca]

Before my main gig went the whole monte with Presonus StudioLive and Qmix for individual in-ear mixes over their Sennheiser wireless IEM packs, I did a mini-mixer setup for myself.

My arrangement was cheap as spit, because it was my only IEM gig at the time, and I didn't know how committed I would be in the long term. The setup was as follows:
- Behringer Xenyx mini mixer
- Ambient feed using SM58 on desktop mic stand at edge of stage. Could move it around to vary what came in.
- Main monitor feed from sound guy.
- More me feed via the effects send from my stage amp.

I chose the mini mixer over a Rolls box (price was within $20 either way), for three reasons:
- no batteries
- stereo pan
- 3 band EQ for each feed

Panning allowed me to push the ambient and monitor feeds just a smidge left and right, with my "more me" feed down the center. Per-channel EQ allowed me to tailor each feed separately for clarity. Carving or pushing the mids a bit, or reducing the bass on a feed, can make a huge difference in clarity.

However, this was all very geeky. I had to use various adapters and/or splitters to get my monitor feed, depending on the venue and how much of our rack gear came to the gig. The mixer, cables, mic, etc. filled a small backpack. It also helped that I have decades of experience as a sound guy, and knew what to do with all those knobs...

Based on my recent experience with the iDevice/Qmix setup, it's much more friendly for people who don't have a lot of audio experience:

Everyone who listened to my mini-mixer rig was jealous of the sound quality, but no-one took me up on my offer to build them a similar setup, because it was so complicated. In contrast, within two gigs, everyone in the band was rockin' Qmix and loving it.

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Hard connect/wire it to your iem feed

Set up a channel with full-spectrum classical music

Set the classical channel to its highest non-clipping setting

Now have someone mute the channel

Go back to your iem point (DO NOT put them on)

Turn down (not off your limiter)

Unmute the loud classical music- record the db level

Now turn the limiter back on

Go back to your iem point (DO NOT put them on) - record the db level

-------

There are various ways limiters treat abnormal spikes .... Some mute everything.... Some distort.... Some drop the level... Some are broken

Don't trust/play/test with your ears

--------


For oscilliscopes.... Old hp are cheap... Many higher end interfaces have them built in (motu cuemix etc)

For RTA.... You can get 4 space TOA w/mic for about $10 used.... There are free iPod apps... Etc

----

For permanent installations I ALWAYS pop $10 and put in a calibrated mic/RTA ..... (Especially for worship) --- why trust your ears???

Awesome!! I'll be setting this up today. Thanks a million.

Just to be clear, the limiter is LAST in the chain before the actual earbuds, correct?

[steve_rolfeca]

To be fair, the other thing that happened pre/post Qmix, was that I ran a "mixer school" for our sound volunteers. My ability to teach that course was greatly helped by my experience with the StudioLive at another venue, and input from Adam Plante, a local sound guy who has a lot of experience with digital gear. Adam is also a sales rep for one of the big Canadian wholesalers.

IME/IMO, any amount of training, beats the heck out of any amount of money spent on gear in a misguided attempt to band-aid operator error.

I also set up a bunch of scenes in the Presonus. All of them feature limiting set to protect from spikes on ALL channels. I don't want unpleasant surprises if something new is added, or a source is moved to a normally inactive input.

[Rip Topaz]

My mixers (main and in ear) are NOT digital.
My PA head is a Carvin RX1200L, which has insert points on the first group of channels, so I can grab any "more" feeds off of that.

My in ear mixer is an old Yamaha MX12/4, it's old but still works like new. I'd love to get a smaller mixer for my in ears, but don't see the point when I already have this one.

I can pull main mix from a send on the front of the Carvin head, then the Yamaha gives me 3-band EQ and pan controls on each channel.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

Awesome!! I'll be setting this up today. Thanks a million.

Just to be clear, the limiter is LAST in the chain before the actual earbuds, correct?

There will be tons on this board that will comment that your last listening device should have one.....

As a blanket recommendation I always suggest the body pack of a shure psm200 (industry standard, well known, avail used, can be hard wired, can be used without the wireless... Has a pro calibrated limiter)

[MNAirHead]

Steve....

I'm a huge fan of the behringer xenix

Do you have a pix of your setup?
How long would it take for a new helper to set it up?

[MNAirHead]

Received a pm


"Why do you always say psm351"

1-about $60 used
2-durable
3-the engineer who designed it answers the phone
4-only the knobs you need are on it
5-has a di function
6-stereo or mono
7-1/8 or 1/4 output
8- small foot print
9-mounts to a standard pedalboard
10-can be powered with a one spot
11-can be stand mounted
12-uses industry standard connectors

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

IME/IMO, any amount of training, beats the heck out of any amount of money spent on gear in a misguided attempt to band-aid operator error.



.

Do you think it's prudent to plan for it (operator error)

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by steve_rolfeca

I also set up a bunch of scenes in the Presonus. All of them feature limiting set to protect from spikes on ALL channels. I don't want unpleasant surprises if something new is added, or a source is moved to a normally inactive input.

Is there a way to make the presonus board have a "rule" that the limiter is always on.... It is it scene by scene

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Do you think it's prudent to plan for it (operator error)

Of course. It's rarely just one thing that needs attention. I try to approach problems with everything I have in my toolbox. Of course, what I'm able/allowed to use, tends to vary from venue to venue.

I mostly work with small organizations with limited means, so about the only thing that's common to every situation, is that I rarely have the luxury of unlimited resources.

Especially in a situation where money is short, people skills are often easier to come by than technological solutions. Where I have the permission and the respect of the people I'm working with, I always try to train, train, train.

Even if I can only get one person on board, with patience that can be enough to change a whole work environment. As soon as my protege starts to demonstrate skills that they lacked before, the rest of the team will usually become more open to training.

[steve_rolfeca]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Is there a way to make the presonus board have a "rule" that the limiter is always on.... It is it scene by scene

Good question. I kind of doubt it, but the next time I get a minute to dive into the documentation, that would be a good thing to check!

I'm in the early stages of building a new business as a computer consultant, so this stuff doesn't get as much time/attention as I would like.

I did it scene-by-scene, simply because I didn't know any better at the time I was setting it up.

[Rip Topaz]

I'm totally on board with Steve. Too many times Murphy's Law has raised it's ugly head.

ALWAYS assume operator error.
ALWAYS plan for the unexpected.
ALWAYS plan for the worst.

NEVER TRUST SOMEONE ELSE WITH YOUR EARS.

If you don't believe me, think about this:
Last year while playing at church, with a fully professionally installed system with Aviom mixers for everyone, someone tripped over the network cable running to my Aviom. It caused a LOUD pop through my in-ears, and a trip to the doctor because even low volume speaking was causing a distorted noise in my ears. It was downright SCARY, luckily I recovered mostly.

Don't eff around with your ears. You only get one set.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

I

If you don't believe me, think about this:
Last year while playing at church, with a fully professionally installed system with Aviom mixers for everyone, someone tripped over the network cable running to my Aviom. It caused a LOUD pop through my in-ears, and a trip to the doctor because even low volume speaking was causing a distorted noise in my ears. It was downright SCARY, luckily I recovered mostly.
.

People ask how to implement just the psm200 body pack.... Tape it to the aviom

Aviom->psm200 body pack->earbuds

[Rip Topaz]

The only problem is that the Shure unit is like $500! That's a lot of cash just to add the limiter. If there's a way to use a rack mount limiter instead, it would be much more financially sensible.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Here could be a dangerous situation other folks have suggested

You can wire your board so that the faders have zero effect on aux

(Same reason to mute an abnormal signal vs fader)

.....

Test #1
Put a powered monitor on your auxes..... Drop the fader to - infinity... Can you still hear your monitor

I've always had the AUX set to pre-fader. The faders never affect the monitors.

When I get an overly hot signal I turn its gain knob down, not the fader.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Just noticed this ....

What's wrong with your church's board & why don't you guys fix or replace it

When boards finally die - they commonly will send an uncontrollable signal

(Thanks king for the discussion & understanding I'm not picking on you - just furthering the talk)

They're all working. That's what I was saying.