Jam etiquette/souncheck/too loud!

[MarkA]

I'm going to a jam tonight. Been going off and on for a year, but tonight is my first night as the "house" bass player (at this or any jam).

This jam has gone through better and worse phases (there have been really stellar nights and total wank-a-thons). One thing, though, that's been consistent and troubling, is that it's almost always TOO LOUD. Starts LOUD and gets WAY TOO LOUD, in the audience and onstage (Despite this, it's hard to hear a clear mix onstage). Last week, especially on stage (but in the audience, too, causing at least one person to leave early) was the worst I remember in this regard. Started WAY TOO LOUD and ended in OMG HELP! I almost stopped playing during the last tune (admittedly very loud and aggressive, and the singer swallowed the mic). I was in pain. I felt my hearing distort like a Marshall driven into soft clipping and waves of dizziness with the loudest tones. I stepped off the stage (thank you, long cable!) to get in front of the monitors and finished the tune from there, but my ears rang for two days. Last time I felt like this was in the front row of a Smashing Pumpkins concert my freshman year of college.

I have an appt. for custom earplugs on Friday. Never worn earplugs, ever, before, but after last week, I'm going.

That still leaves tonight. I don't want to experience further assault on my hearing, and I want to take this opportunity (since I'll be there for setup and soundcheck) to address the issue, not just for myself but for the quality of the jam. I know several musicians have complained among themselves. I don't know how much, if anything, has been said to the soundguy (who varies depending on the night, and is usually hurried and overworked). I want to address things tactfully with the soundguy and other musicians, and efficiently during the soundcheck.

My thoughts are, first, simply to tell everyone, politely, what I said above. Not sure how else to get at that except say it.

Next is to start soundcheck with the monitors at ZERO, turn up the bass amp just enough to comfortably balance the acoustic sound of a hard-hitting drummer, have the guitarist turn up 'til he can comfortably hear himself... Then add in the horns, keys, vocals, etc., and have everyone make their monitor requests, but STARTING FROM ZERO, just asking specifically for what they need/want to hear more of.

I'm a respected "semi-regular" at this jam, but I'm not there every week. I'm not the guy who goes to the trouble of putting it together, and I have zero experience running a board. I don't want to come across as a jerk, and I don't want to alienate the good people I've been fortunate to play with or make the soundguy feel like I'm telling him how to do his job. But I do want to do something about the situation.

I appreciate any suggestions on how to deal with this tactfully, and do the soundcheck efficiently (no idea what procedures are currently in place for it).

I should've posted this earlier -- gotta leave in a couple hours for the jam -- but I didn't even know there were forums here aside from those dealing with selling amps and basses!

Thanks in advance.
-Mark

[JetBlackJazz]

love you too

[MarkA]

Originally Posted by JetBlackJazz

love you too

But, we hardly even know each other.

[Rob Lewis]

Once you're in earplug territory you're in trouble.

[MarkA]

I don't like the idea of wearing earplugs -- in my "non-electric bass life" I play all acoustic music. Never worn them for that (or electric, yet), and it seems ridiculous to me that we turn up loud enough that we need to "turn down" again with plugs, but if I'm honest, this isn't the first time I've been in a situation where the volume was uncomfortable. Just the first time, as a player, when it was so extreme (at least where I was standing onstage). Largely my fault for not have said something.

Originally Posted by Rob Lewis

Once you're in earplug territory you're in trouble.

[Stinsok]

That's just too loud.

[alneto]

Originally Posted by MarkA

I'm going to a jam tonight. Been going off and on for a year, but tonight is my first night as the "house" bass player (at this or any jam).

This jam has gone through better and worse phases (there have been really stellar nights and total wank-a-thons). One thing, though, that's been consistent and troubling, is that it's almost always TOO LOUD. Starts LOUD and gets WAY TOO LOUD, in the audience and onstage (Despite this, it's hard to hear a clear mix onstage). Last week, especially on stage (but in the audience, too, causing at least one person to leave early) was the worst I remember in this regard. Started WAY TOO LOUD and ended in OMG HELP! I almost stopped playing during the last tune (admittedly very loud and aggressive, and the singer swallowed the mic). I was in pain. I felt my hearing distort like a Marshall driven into soft clipping and waves of dizziness with the loudest tones. I stepped off the stage (thank you, long cable!) to get in front of the monitors and finished the tune from there, but my ears rang for two days. Last time I felt like this was in the front row of a Smashing Pumpkins concert my freshman year of college.

I have an appt. for custom earplugs on Friday. Never worn earplugs, ever, before, but after last week, I'm going.

That still leaves tonight. I don't want to experience further assault on my hearing, and I want to take this opportunity (since I'll be there for setup and soundcheck) to address the issue, not just for myself but for the quality of the jam. I know several musicians have complained among themselves. I don't know how much, if anything, has been said to the soundguy (who varies depending on the night, and is usually hurried and overworked). I want to address things tactfully with the soundguy and other musicians, and efficiently during the soundcheck.

My thoughts are, first, simply to tell everyone, politely, what I said above. Not sure how else to get at that except say it.

Next is to start soundcheck with the monitors at ZERO, turn up the bass amp just enough to comfortably balance the acoustic sound of a hard-hitting drummer, have the guitarist turn up 'til he can comfortably hear himself... Then add in the horns, keys, vocals, etc., and have everyone make their monitor requests, but STARTING FROM ZERO, just asking specifically for what they need/want to hear more of.

I'm a respected "semi-regular" at this jam, but I'm not there every week. I'm not the guy who goes to the trouble of putting it together, and I have zero experience running a board. I don't want to come across as a jerk, and I don't want to alienate the good people I've been fortunate to play with or make the soundguy feel like I'm telling him how to do his job. But I do want to do something about the situation.

I appreciate any suggestions on how to deal with this tactfully, and do the soundcheck efficiently (no idea what procedures are currently in place for it).

I should've posted this earlier -- gotta leave in a couple hours for the jam -- but I didn't even know there were forums here aside from those dealing with selling amps and basses!

Thanks in advance.
-Mark

You're probably leaving or already have left to your jam. But I really would like to know how you managed this situation. If you don't mind, please share with us. Sometimes I almost feel like you in the rehearsals in a studio we use to practice once a week.

Anyway, good luck tonight

[faulknersj]

Let us know how it turns out. Explain why these changes will make the jam more enjoyable and more successful.

[millsbass5]

I've been gigging (Translation:Gettin' pppaid!!) consistently since I was 15yrs. old,I'm 44 now. So,needless to say,I've experienced pretty much all that can be thrown at a guy that's been in the trenches literally every weekend,for decades. And that would include your conundrum also,more times than I would even care to count,to be honest.
There has been a time or two that I've walked into the bar we were playing at,and I would set my case down at my feet,and insist on a pow-wow about the problem. Now I try be a laid back kinda guy,instead of being a prick about any situation that may happen to arise. As my Grandma (RIP) used to say,"Enough's enough,and too much is nasty!"
If it were me? I would stroll right in,demand a sit down,and tell'em something HAS TO GIVE. Hell,if they have half a brain,they'd probably wanna kiss your feet for havin' the nuts to bring the subject up,and stopping that nonsense. For all you know,they may feel the same way,except for the guitar player..... Seriously though,how can someone enjoy playing when you practically have blood running out of your ears from sheer volume ? The whole point of playing music is to experience pleasure,not pain!
Also,if you are pretty much the only bassist there,I'd play that card to the hilt! Because when it comes down to it? No bassist? No band! Keep us posted.

[nutdog]

Start sound check with vocals. Set everything else so they don't cover the vocal level you want.

Hard hitting drummer...hmmm. Shotgun?

[Stumbo]

Originally Posted by nutdog

Start sound check with vocals.

IME, that's the best method for balancing the FOH.

Hard hitting drummer...

That's the best method for unbalancing everything you've done to balance the FOH.

IME, many jam drummers like to take their aggression out on their drums and don't give a $4!+ about the FOH since it's a jam band and not a "real" band. They don't have one to answer to unless the people running the jam set the sound rules.

[MarkA]

Okay, it's a little after 3:00 a.m. and I'm beat. I tried to type a detailed post, but started nodding off halfway through. For now, I'll just say this:

Talking to people beforehand wasn't as bad as I thought. I'm glad I did it.

It wasn't perfect -- the onstage volume did creep up considerably -- but it was a lot better. I did have the sound-guy remove some vocals from my monitor at one point (I've never heard anyone ask for less of anything in their monitors before, only more of this or that), and knowing I could do that was liberating. No ringing ears tonight.

I'm going to have to be more careful about other people using my rig. Someone said something to me beforehand about taping the knobs, which I thought pretty overboard. Seems more reasonable now.

That's all! Maybe more later.

[EricssonB]

Awesome! Glad it went well. I'll take notes if/when I ever play a venue like this.

In the studio, you can add to get the sound you want.
On the stage, you should remove to keep the sounds you want.