Keyboards and the PA

M0ses · #1 10-17-2009, 07:56 PM

Well, this isn't really about bass, so if this is in the wrong place, I'm sorry. But it IS about live sound.

So basically it's like this. The guitar player owns a 600W Peavey PA. It's got only two outputs, we use a speaker on a stand and a stage monitor, but that's plenty loud enough for our needs. But here's the thing. The guitarist's dad (yes we're highschoolers

) INSISTS that we CANNOT run ANYTHING but vocals through that PA or it will sound terrible. This is not good for us because our keyboardist doesn't have an amp and has to rely on PA support. The drummer owns another smaller 300W PA, which we have been running the keyboards through, but it sounds AWFUL. Tons of fuzz, boomy, the speakers just cannot handle it. Not te mention it is barely loud enough to keep up with us. I don't think they are made for band-application at all.

So, is there really any reason we shouldn't be running the keyboards through the good PA? Or is it a beter idea to invest in better speakers for the 300W?

I just don't see any reason to not run keys through the PA...

JimmyM · #2 10-17-2009, 08:55 PM

Keys can put out as much or more bass energy as a bass. And a 600w PA is what I call a vocals-only PA, and I'd be real hesitant to put instruments through it, too. Your keyboard player needs to get an amp for situations where it's a vocals only PA. Roland makes a couple very popular keyboard combos for not a whole lot of money. They are plentiful on the used market, too.

M0ses · #3 10-17-2009, 10:59 PM

What if we amped it with something small and then DI'ed to the 300W PA? We're on a really tight budget and we were planning on getting a *real* synth to go with his digital piano and Hammond. Or is something like this better?

M0ses · #4 10-17-2009, 11:07 PM

Sorry....I'm just confused about what it is about the PA that makes it unsuitable for keys/instruments in general, or what it is about a keys amp that makes it work. I thought the biggest differences between amps was EQ. And why can't we just get some speakers with more balls? Lol.

JimmyM · #5 10-18-2009, 12:34 AM

See, that's the big holdup. If the speakers had more balls, it would be OK. Try to lay your hands on some sort of amp. Bass amps are usually OK for keys. A guitar amp will do in a pinch, but you can blow it with too much low end.

M0ses · #6 10-18-2009, 12:00 PM

If it would be just as effetive to get better speakers for the 300W PA, then that is what we should do, I think, because of the Hammond organ. It doesn't have any DI at all, just a speaker which we have to mic to the PA. There wouldn't be any way to put that into a standard keyboard amp along with the keyboard. Also the price is about the same, so..... well on the other hand, are there even any PA speakers that will run at 300W and work wel? Do you have any reccomendations on that subject?

totallybacan · #7 10-18-2009, 03:08 PM

What's your budget?

I would suggest getting a cheap Carvin power amp, one or two 3 way cabs, and slave the power amp off of the mixer.

Or you could just slave subs off the mixer, which would just mean you would have some more lowend which should free up the other cabs from lowend

M0ses · #8 10-18-2009, 05:39 PM

Our budget would be around $300 tops. I know, not much to work with at all.
Can you exlain about slaving? I hate to admit that I don't know what you're talking about.

lindseyp · #9 10-18-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0ses

... But here's the thing. The guitarist's dad (yes we're highschoolers

) INSISTS that we CANNOT run ANYTHING but vocals through that PA or it will sound terrible. ...

Have you considered, he may be telling you the truth? That it can't handle keyboards? I highly suggest looking for used Roland keyboard amps, I see these in just about every church and auditorium I play in. They may not be the best, but then again, they may be the best for the price.

cultrvultr · #10 10-18-2009, 06:32 PM

The Dad is (rightly) concerned about the low frequencies from the keyboards stealing all the much-needed juice for the vocals. Read up on "Gain before Feedback".

If you have EQ controls on the Peavey PA, try a rehearsal with the keyboards into the PA. Take most of the lows out of the keyboards and see if you can still get the same vocal volume without feedback. If you can do that, then you should be able to get away with it.

Also, do you really bring a Hammond and a digital piano to every gig? That is a lot of lifting!

totallybacan · #11 10-19-2009, 12:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M0ses

Our budget would be around $300 tops. I know, not much to work with at all.
Can you exlain about slaving? I hate to admit that I don't know what you're talking about.

Slaving would be where you use an amp that is dependant on another. It's only purpose would be for the power amp. For example, taking your powered mixer and running a line out to another amp, and plugging into the power amp in. Or using an actual power amp and using the settings on the mixer, which will give you an extended pre/power rig.

M0ses · #12 10-19-2009, 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lindseyp

Have you considered, he may be telling you the truth? That it can't handle keyboards? I highly suggest looking for used Roland keyboard amps, I see these in just about every church and auditorium I play in. They may not be the best, but then again, they may be the best for the price.

Yes we have. That's why I asked and why we've been running it through a totally different PA. But in reality it sounds a lot worse through a different PA. Like I said I'm open to the amp idea, I'm just looking for the most amplification with the leas money. And we need to be able to amp the organ as well. Keep in mind I've only got $300 to work with here! This needs to be an informed purchase.

And yes, we lug a Hammond to every gig. It is a beast to carry but the thing SOUNDS like a beast and we love it. No Leslie roatiting cab though, just a built-in speaker.

Vanceman · #13 10-19-2009, 10:52 AM

Very interesting, I have never considered any ill effects of the keyboards thru my PA, which consists of 2-way 15" mains, 2-way 12" monitors, four vocalists, 2 keyboards, kick drum, and Line 6 guitar. We have been running that way for years, BUT, this last gig, on a suggestion I read here, the hi-pass filter @ 80hz was engaged on every channel. That was the best the PA ever sounded.

M0ses · #14 10-19-2009, 10:54 PM

What if, like I said, we got speakers with some [url="http://pro-audio.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-PV-215-Dual-15-2Way-Speaker-Cabinet?sku=601388"]BALLS[url] to it, and hooked that up to the 300W no-vocal keyboard-only PA? Would that sound good? I believe that it's minimum load is 4 ohms total, so could we use this and one of the original 8 ohm speakers? Actually that description doesn't say how many ohms it is but I'm assuming 8.

M0ses · #15 10-23-2009, 09:00 PM

For real. Can someone please tell me how I can amp both the keys and the organ for $300? Will that cab work? Everyone tells me to get an amp but ignores the organ. It's just as important here! Please the band needs a solution and I don't know what to tell them.

JimmyM · #16 10-23-2009, 09:17 PM

The best you're going to do for $300 is to find a used keyboard or bass amp. You can run a mic from the Hammond to the amp if you have either an XLR input (which some amps have) or an XLR to 1/4" transformer.