Laptop As An Amp/Effect

mattblissett · #1 01-19-2009, 06:46 PM

My drummer mentioned to me, that I might be able to put my bass through a laptop, and using music software, would be able to put in sound patches, and change the music. Is this possible and how would you go about it?

NJL · #2 01-19-2009, 06:51 PM

i'm pretty sure this topic has been covered before, nonetheless i'm interested as well.

JimmyM · #3 01-20-2009, 01:39 AM

It's absolutely possible. But the methods are different depending on what equipment and interfaces you use. But the basic version is you can use your computer just like an effect and you plug it into the soundcard's input and plug the output into your amp and run it through whatever software. However, you need a laptop with a better soundcard than the crappy ones that come with them, a lot of RAM and speed, and a reliable OS for it to be feasible onstage.

DawnOfNone · #4 01-20-2009, 07:31 AM

I can't imagine this being possible in a live situation. As you mention, RAM and speed will be an issue, because the processing will take some time. The lag between what you play and what you hear, will seriously mess with the feel and groove of what you're doing, I presume.

JimmyM · #5 01-20-2009, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DawnOfNone

I can't imagine this being possible in a live situation. As you mention, RAM and speed will be an issue, because the processing will take some time. The lag between what you play and what you hear, will seriously mess with the feel and groove of what you're doing, I presume.

You can get that lag time down to nothing with a fast enough CPU and enough RAM. But I still don't trust doing it. Seen too many onstage lockups with other people's rigs.

ga_edwards · #6 01-20-2009, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

You can get that lag time down to nothing with a fast enough CPU and enough RAM. But I still don't trust doing it. Seen too many onstage lockups with other people's rigs.

And not wanting to start an OS flame war, but I personally wouldn't trust windows in a live situation. Mac OS and linux (both Unix derirvatives) would be more stable. But any OS can crash, hell, I've even seen my mates old zoom (insert x00x number here) player multi crash!

Anyhoo, to software options. As far as proven 'professional' quality goes, the big 2 are Native Instruments Guitar Rig, which you can get a floor controllor for, and Sampletank's Amplitube. There's even a bass version of the latter: Amplitube SVX made in partnership with Ampeg, so it only really models ampegs. Both systems are incredibly tweakable, even down to microphone type, axis and distance. Personally I'd lean toward Guitar Rig if fx, racks and routing are your thing, and amplitube if amp and stompbox tweaking are your thing. A nice thing with amplitube too is you can mix and match pre-amps, eq sections, poweramps and cabs, so quite a modular approach. Not sure if Guitar rig does this.

Sampletank have created a special live version of the amplitube series with floorboard that's worth a look if you have the money. It's basically a floorboard with a PC inside, that runs any of the different versions of the amplitube software without having to hook it up to a computer. Although you still can for detailed tweaking. Even so, it's a computer inside, it can still go wonky!

Zoom have recently launched their own computer interface software combos too, one with a desktop unit and one with a floor controller. If their products in recent years are anything to go by, this may well prove to be a steal.

There are of course plenty of other software amp sims, such as Line6 amp farm, though this is protools only, if you fancy using that live. And countless freeware options available.

Ooh, before I forget, Markbass have also recently lauched their own amp modelling software, give that a look too.

dave_bass5 · #7 01-26-2009, 08:27 AM

Ive been experimenting at home with this set up and for one gig only, this sat, im going to use this in to my LMII, bypassing the pre section. Just to see how it goes.
Normally i use either Guitar rig or Amplitube SVX on my main PC but over the last two weeks ive been relegated to the bedroom so set this up. And so far ive not run in to any problems.
If it works out ill maybe think about just running the Netbook in to the PA direct but for now, im very nervious about it all crashing.
ive timed my usage and ive had 11 hours and around 50 mins of playing without one crash and latency in down to 6ms.

Dirk Diggler · #8 01-26-2009, 08:54 AM

I've been doing it for several years with Native Instruments Guitar Rig. Flame windows all you want but I've been using a laptop with XP all this time with 0 issues live. If your system is setup properly and of course tweaked with the usual audio tweaks and a decent outboard sound card, not an issue. My laptop is setup for only doing audio/video work, not a surfing machine.
Good luck,
Dirk

D.A.R.K. · #9 01-26-2009, 10:36 AM

i've been doing it for about 5 years with macs and ableton live.
the key for me is to run a blend or split so that if anything catastrophic happens, i can just keep on playing bass.
current rig is:
instuments> mixer> rme firface400>mac/ableton>mixer>amps.
i use an fcb1010 foot controller(2 expression pedals, 10 switches).
for examples click on the 302acid link below, check out the live shows (all free btw), alot of what sounds like synths etc. is bowed eub through this rig.
i use the same computer/ableton to sequence video/audio and effect other live instruments.
very do-able.

ga_edwards · #10 01-26-2009, 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dave_bass5

Ive been experimenting at home with this set up and for one gig only, this sat, im going to use this in to my LMII, bypassing the pre section. Just to see how it goes.
Normally i use either Guitar rig or Amplitube SVX on my main PC but over the last two weeks ive been relegated to the bedroom so set this up. And so far ive not run in to any problems.
If it works out ill maybe think about just running the Netbook in to the PA direct but for now, im very nervious about it all crashing.
ive timed my usage and ive had 11 hours and around 50 mins of playing without one crash and latency in down to 6ms.

I've been wondering how a netbook would cope with things like this. I have an Acer Aspire One (usual netbook spec of 1.6Ghz Atom and 512Mb ram). How much of a performance hit are Guitar Rig and Amplitube on this platform? I mean, is it a struggle or do they handle them with ease?

I may download the ASIO4ALL driver as an experiment to get the low latency as I don't want to splash out on an external soundcard just yet.

I'm also thinking about loading Reason on it too, as we play 'Jump' in the band and it has an awesome synth patch in there somewhere. I'm thinking the basic engine hasn't changed that much over the years so it should run fine.

dave_bass5 · #11 01-26-2009, 12:47 PM

My Netbook is a Asus EEE PC 901 with the same CPU as the Acer. I have 1GB RAM and its all solid state so we have similar specs although i have double the RAM (with another 1GB on its way)

As i said, i can stream MP3's and over my network to the 901 and play along with no problems. saying that, the Fast track USB2 audio interface is probably helping a lot and its giving me the low latency. I was tempted to try the ASIO4ALL drivers with the internal sound chip but as the FT has a proper jack socket it seemed the right thing to use.
I do have Sonar 7 on it as well but so far Ive not really attempted to record anything as I'm only interested in playing through it.
I doubt you would get very far with only 521MB though. The CPU hit is pretty high but as long as there isn't any other memory hogging apps running it works fine.

ga_edwards · #12 01-26-2009, 01:18 PM

Yeah, I'm gonna get another 1GB stick for it soon (keep putting it off as it's a pig to do on the aspire one!). But I'm using a TinyXP image so memory usage is quite low.

I may well give it a go soon with a demo version. Can't hurt can it!

ga_edwards · #13 01-27-2009, 06:03 PM

As an experiment I picked up a Line6 Pod Studio GX http://line6.com/podstudiogx/ as my local store are selling them quite cheap. I had made up my mind, if it didn't work very well with the netbook, it's still a handy practice tool for my main desktop computer.

It's basically an external usb soundcard tailored for low latency monitoring with the ASIO drivers and hardware tomfoolery, and with expandable pod software tied to the hardware. Anyhoo, I installed it on my imac first, and I must say the installation and pdf manual isn't the clearest in the world (I think this is a common Line6 trait, and part of the reason why I decided upon the Zoom B9.1ut over the X3 live). After I got it installed, I fired up the pod farm software, and I have to say, I'm well impressed with the sound quality. Esp for about £40. Only downside, is being the lowest one of the range, it only works with certain models, part of the hardware being tied to the software

After that, I downloaded the ampeg SVX and guitar rig demos, and it works just as well. Super low latency.

So, on to the netbook. I was dubious to how well it would work, and after going through the same confusing installation process, fired it up and with the pod farm software it works fabulously. Tried the SVX and guitar rig demos on here too. The SVX has as few crackles here and there, this one is pushing the system to it's limits, but it's usable as a practice tool. Perhaps a bit my ram may help, or I just need to turn off some background processes. Guitar rig is absolutely fine, could even gig with it if I wanted too. It's a shame it only has one bass amp model!

Anyway, if you have a similarly specced netbook and a few spare notes that need spending, I can definitely recommend the pod GX, even if you only need a good quality sounding practice tool.

Ooh, also. Being an external soundcard, it doesn't tie up the internal sound (on my mac anyway) so I can play tunes in itunes and play along no problem. I know SVX and guitar rig have media players, but it's still handy to be able too. I guess if you wanted to, you could run guitar pro in the background for learning songs from tab.

Murder_Worship · #14 01-27-2009, 06:49 PM

i havnt done it live, but i use a laptop with my line6 toneport ux2 and the program podarm then it feeds into my amp and i use effects and stuff, it sounds rly rly good imo and theres never any delay

dave_bass5 · #15 01-28-2009, 03:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ga_edwards

I guess if you wanted to, you could run guitar pro in the background for learning songs from tab.

Thats what i mainly use mine for. Been using the Pc for a few years but its now nice to be able to go in to any room in the house.
I use my WiFi to stream the MP3's to the Netbook so i dont even have to have 100's of MP3's loaded on it.

While GR does only have one bank of Bass pretests i find you can get almost any tone you want out of them, although i then to stick to a more middy tone as it cuts through in the headphones better.

TerenceSharp · #16 02-04-2009, 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ga_edwards

I've been wondering how a netbook would cope with things like this. I have an Acer Aspire One (usual netbook spec of 1.6Ghz Atom and 512Mb ram). How much of a performance hit are Guitar Rig and Amplitube on this platform? I mean, is it a struggle or do they handle them with ease?

I may download the ASIO4ALL driver as an experiment to get the low latency as I don't want to splash out on an external soundcard just yet.

I'm also thinking about loading Reason on it too, as we play 'Jump' in the band and it has an awesome synth patch in there somewhere. I'm thinking the basic engine hasn't changed that much over the years so it should run fine.

Tried Guitar rig on my acer aspire one (1GB RAM Version).
... Hopeless.

The onboard sound is EXTREMELY noisy, so use of ASIO4ALL as a "Cheap out" is not possible and the processor just isn't up to the job to perform reliably - Atleast not enough for me to trust it in a live situation! = It runs nice though.

Personally if I was going to do this for serious I'd have a proper PC in a rack case. - X-Case do a Shallow 4 Unit Rack case designed to fit in audio racks. - Run one of those external USB 7" LCD Displays to the front of the stage and use some sort of MIDI floor controller and you are sorted, although now you are carrying a load of gear.

I went as far as to build my own pedal array out of wood, a keyboard encoder and 6 foot switches (All Of Which I had lying around... strangly)

OS Wise Windows is NO problem, You just need to streamline and keep it "sterilized" so to speak, (Don't use your Live-PC as a web browsing machine...)

Just my experiences and thoughts.

MX21 · #17 02-04-2009, 04:27 PM

I use an HP laptop with Vista and an Echo Audio firewire interface. I don't use it for live effects although it would work. I use it for multi-track recording up to 12 tracks simultaneously and it handles it just fine. I also use it for live audio and midi control for stage production stuff. You do have to do a bit to clean your Vista or XP to get rid of all the junk that gets added on. There's a couple guides on how to do this here:

http://www.audioforums.com/resource_center.php

Once I cleaned it up, Vista is very reliable and keeps up no problem. And the sound quality of the Echo Audio firewire boxes is excellent.

MX