Let's talk VOLUME!!! Q's and A's?

[mowburger]

Well I'm home today no work no plans, just laundry :/

I have been learning tons on the forum about all aspects of bassdom. I am currently stuck on finding the right tone at the right volume for the bands I'm playing with.

Anyone that has gigged out alot knows what works in your house is alot different in a venue. Usually what you think sounds great at home gets lost in a live setting, PA or not.

Simply boosting your volume doesn't help, IME it gets way to boomy or just way to harsh, especially if your pushing your rig too hard.

In my quest for good tone at full live band db levels, I have burnt a few Speakers/Crossovers, and Amps (a moment of silence for my GK 700RBmkII) So by reading ALOT of stuff on TalkBass I feel I have learned a boat load, for that I am extremely grateful.

So, What I'd like other people to chime in on is, what they figured out they have to do to get a good amount of volume and the tone they are happy with. What did you have to change in your setup, how many watts do you think is enough? How many cabs did you have to add? Did you change Preamps/heads, find a pedal or other outboard gear that helps you?

Of course this doesn't really apply if you play in a soft acoustic gig, or jazz group in a super club or similar.

This is aimed more at louder type bands rock/metal/loud blues, maybe reggae, stuff thats loud in general.

To get the ball rolling I'll give an example....

I started with a GK700 and 410sbx+ cab, well as everyone could guess the sound shot right past my knees = too much into audience not enough to MY ears, Added a single 18" cab.
As you could guess this was an EQing nightmare, soon the Xover in the 118 fried. I always felt like I was pushing the RB700 too hard, and soon it gave up on me in a blaze of glory. Cool from audience perspective "wow that bassist was rocking so hard he caught his amp on fire" (reality I had to go BDDI thru PA rest of night)

My first reaction was to add watts, ALOT of watts, so that I wasn't pushing my amp so hard, read ; HEADROOM

ok so I bought a 2000w poweramp. yay. Well the only pre's I had were a SansAmp BDDI, and a Korg Pandora PX4D, oddly the PX4D drove the poweramp to full level, but my BDDI didn't unless I boosted EQ/Drive/Presence, and Level with it set on LINE! So this gave me a sound I don't like, And the AC adapter input on the Korg is a lil too sketchy to use for gigs.

I bought a Boss GT6B to try out and found I only really used the Parametric EQ so I didn't want to lug that beast around just for EQ, I also found out I don't like digital gear for live band work, IMO it just sounds different than analog gear.
I found the best thing for me considering I do pickup gigs frequently were I use a provided backline and sometimes can't bring a rig of my own, Is a modular type rig where all my tone shaping and effects fit on a small pedal board (for me the Gator Pedal Tote is perfect) So as long as I have the pedal board I know what kind os sound I can get/and give to FOH.

My poweramp is in a lightweight short rack. And then a couple of MATCHING cabs so I can use one or two depending on VOLUME needs would complete my rig.

I also wanted an easier to carry cab than the 84lb 410, so I got one of those Carvin LS1503 cabs to try out. Well the Cab helped out alot, my sound was alot clearer so I could hear it better, I also liked the footprint, and weight of this cab.

I've tried a couple of different Pre's but havn't found "the one" I actually put a MXR 10 band EQ after the BDDI as a clean boost and room EQ and that helped as far as driving the poweramp to full volume and not having to boost anything on the BDDI, but having only one cab is still the last thing holding me back (I hope) from having a great tone at the level I need (I carry alot of bar rooms with no PA support in two different 4pc rockbands with LOUD guitars).

I just ordered an Aguilar Tone Hammer to try out, it gets great reviews/ sounds good on demo vids, and says it will drive ANY poweramp, so my quest for tone is ongoing, even tho I think I have the VOLUME issue sorted.

Input from anyone accepted, critisizms too



One of the bands videos= EARLY THOMAS BAND "NEW RELIGION TCS. Records 2011 - YouTube

[derrico1]

One more LS1503 and you should be all set for not much more scratch. Of course, that would be a pretty tall stack and a lot of cab to schlep.

[walterw]

+1 the key is two of the same cab, so they don't "fight" each other with low-end phase issues.

as for the sansamp, something's not right. i use a BDDI all the time into a power amp, and it's plenty hot enough to drive the amp right into clip if i wanted it to. this is even running an unbalanced 1/4" cable to the amp.

[bassboysam]

Everything worked when I bit the bullet and got a sealed 810, tube amps also helped but for me the key is/was the cab.

Also when setting up I set the EQ on the amp so the bass is at minimum, then I start playing and slowly add bass to the point where I can start to hear a nice low end. Once I hear that turning the bass up anymore is not adding anything beneficial to the sound I stop and adjust mids and highs to taste.

[mowburger]

Originally Posted by derrico1

One more LS1503 and you should be all set for not much more scratch. Of course, that would be a pretty tall stack and a lot of cab to schlep.

+1 thats what I'm counting on for volume needs, more air moving. pushing insuficiant speaker area too hard leads to crappy sound, and ultimately failure.

walterw said:

as for the sansamp, something's not right. i use a BDDI all the time into a power amp, and it's plenty hot enough to drive the amp right into clip if i wanted it to. this is even running an unbalanced 1/4" cable to the amp.

Maybe because the CROWN DRIVECORE XLS2000 I'm using needs to see 1.4Vrms to reach full power? I've read alot that this is alot for ANY poweramp, so anything short of a rackmounted Pre channel/strip has a hard time giving that much juice ie, the BDDI unless of course I start boosting stuff then it will drive the Crown ok, but I don't like the sound when I boost stuff, The MXR M108 10 band EQ runs on 18v DC and had enough clean gain to drive the Crown even by itself! weird I know...

bassboysam said:

Everything worked when I bit the bullet and got a sealed 810, tube amps also helped but for me the key is/was the cab.

+1 on cabs being "key"

also:

Also when setting up I set the EQ on the amp so the bass is at minimum, then I start playing and slowly add bass to the point where I can start to hear a nice low end. Once I hear that turning the bass up anymore is not adding anything beneficial to the sound I stop and adjust mids and highs to taste.

Too true IME adding alot of sub 100hz always muddies things up, and uses up watts to boot.


Thanx for input guys!

Next on GAS list; Tone Hammer (is on backorder), matching cab, Envolope Filter...it's not ALL about VOLUME!!!

[redhed]

For me it was switching to ampeg amps and cabs. I couldn't believe what I was missing with the SWR, GALLIEN-KRUEGER, PEAVEY, YORKVILLE and whatever else I've had in my almost 30 years of playing (ouch!) until I played AMPEG!

[devilock76]

Volume = cabinets, cabinets, and even MORE CABINETS.

The Watts wars will never win. I learned that the hard and expensive way. Invest your money in good cabinets first and foremost and you cannot go wrong.

Ken

[TimmyP]

Wireless, so you can walk the room and hear it as the audience hears it.

Parametric EQ, so you can attenuate the frequencies that are too hot in the room (few amps have the EQ needed, and 1/3 octave EQs aren't a good choice owing to the centers and bandwidth not being adjustable - parametric is the correct tool).

[1958Bassman]

If your band plays gigs at extremely high SPL, you should be going DI. Get a great sound DI and use speakers close to you that allow you to hear what you're playing- the actual sound that goes to the FOH mix will never be the same as what you hear on stage, regardless of how you set it up- if you go DI or mic your speakers, the FOH sound is what matters but it won't ever match what you hear when you're playing. If you have a good sound mixer, I would bet that at some point, maybe every time your band plays, he yells at everyone to use a lower stage volume. You shouldn't need to open the clouds when you play and if you're blowing up equipment, you should work on setting your levels.