Limiter for IEM

Rip Topaz · #1 11-21-2012, 04:41 AM

So I'm setting up my IEM board, which is a wired setup just for myself.

I'm using an old Yamaha MX 12/4 mixer, kinda overkill but I've owned it for years and its not being used for the main PA. I get my signals from the PA by using the inserts on my Carvin RX1200 powered mixer. I've got six channels with inserts, so I can get a pretty solid mix going into the Yamaha board.

Here's the problem, though. I know in order to keep your hearing there needs to be a limiter on all the channels in my IEM, but I'm unsure of how to set the limiter for a brick wall cutoff.

Anyone wanna shed some light on this?

MNAirHead · #2 11-21-2012, 06:37 AM

Depends on the limiter

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Opinion ---- wait.... Save a few bucks .... Rollspm351+shurepsm200

Simplification is an iem trait

Rip Topaz · #3 11-21-2012, 06:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Depends on the limiter

----

Opinion ---- wait.... Save a few bucks .... Rollspm351+shurepsm200

Simplification is an iem trait

Does the Shure have a built-in limiter?

$600?!?!? Does anyone make one cheaper? I don't need wireless, actually prefer wired.

I don't want to buy a bunch of stuff to replace what I've already got, but at the same time I don't want to cause unnecessary headaches for the soundguy.

MNAirHead · #4 11-21-2012, 07:09 AM

Yes it does (limiter)

You can use the body pack with a wire

You can find them used ~225

If you're committed to iem.... Wireless helps as you're clueless of options that the sound guy has..... About 1/2 the time I keep the wireless setup at the soundboard

Rip Topaz · #5 11-21-2012, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Yes it does (limiter)

You can use the body pack with a wire

You can find them used ~225

If you're committed to iem.... Wireless helps as you're clueless of options that the sound guy has..... About 1/2 the time I keep the wireless setup at the soundboard

Good to know. Thanks.

MNAirHead · #6 11-21-2012, 08:04 AM

Wireless helps as sometimes cabling is an issue

Can go phones out to wireless

Rip Topaz · #7 11-21-2012, 08:10 AM

I've already got the buds, thanks to a few church gigs that required me to use their Aviom system. The Shure buds that they provided sucked, so I got a set of UE TripleFi 10's. I LOVE them, so anything I buy, I'll be using them.

My reason for preferring wired is simply the batteries. After many years of active basses, I got tired of constantly having to deal with batteries and whether they'd last through the gig. I now play strictly passive basses.

I get that wireless is good for checking the FOH, and completely agree, so switching to the wired setup for rehearsal is great for battery conservation.

MNAirHead · #8 11-21-2012, 10:00 AM

This is the magic of having a Rolls PM351 with you...

For trusted PA systems... you can plug directly into this and a long Radio Shack Extention cord.

I carry a powered monitor in my car... IF the situation is not appropriate for IEM, I can use the Rolls PM351 to do my mix for my monitor.

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I know some of this is overkill... for about $600 (used and new gear) you can have options for most scenarios.

Be careful of wiring... it's advisable to have an "octopus" of wiring options... TS... TRS... XLR... 1/4... 1/8 etc.

I've not put an attenuator in the system next (speaker to line level) this is next.

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About 15% of the church gigs require me to leave the wireless setup back at the booth.. this may be limitations of wiring, cabling, education, cords etc.

Tim

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

I've already got the buds, thanks to a few church gigs that required me to use their Aviom system. The Shure buds that they provided sucked, so I got a set of UE TripleFi 10's. I LOVE them, so anything I buy, I'll be using them.

My reason for preferring wired is simply the batteries. After many years of active basses, I got tired of constantly having to deal with batteries and whether they'd last through the gig. I now play strictly passive basses.

I get that wireless is good for checking the FOH, and completely agree, so switching to the wired setup for rehearsal is great for battery conservation.

MNAirHead · #9 11-21-2012, 10:01 AM

It's adviseable to have some high capacity rechargeables in your plan...

I undrstand your non-love of batteries... unfortunately it's a necessary evil to do this one effectively.

rknox · #10 11-21-2012, 10:28 AM

I'm not sure this fits your needs, but I use the Peavey HB2 Headphone Amp (with built-in adjustable limiter) for my wired IEM. Cheap, small, and works great.

If I'm reading you right, you might need one for each channel, though.

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/401104.html

BTW, it makes a nice little headphone practice amp, too.

Rip Topaz · #11 11-21-2012, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rknox

I'm not sure this fits your needs, but I use the Peavey HB2 Headphone Amp (with built-in adjustable limiter) for my wired IEM. Cheap, small, and works great.

If I'm reading you right, you might need one for each channel, though.

http://www.fullcompass.com/product/401104.html

BTW, it makes a nice little headphone practice amp, too.

I've seen that one. I don't think it would work for my needs.

Here's the thing. I also sing, so my "more me" section needs to have the ability to control both my bass and my vocal in my IEM. The Rolls 351 also seems to be an option.

MNAirHead · #12 11-21-2012, 10:41 AM

The Samson SAmp is a reasonable headphone amp... my PA rack has one on there.. never had a complaint about it... about $25 used...

I cheat and use it as a "splitter' and create 4 channels... can then adjust the volume.

Rip Topaz · #13 11-21-2012, 10:49 AM

We're getting pretty far away from my original question.

I asked originally for limiter settings to create a brick wall for IEM. Now, suggesting IEM systems is great, but I've already got a system in place, just need to make it smaller eventually.

What I REALLY need is to put a limiter on the output of my IEM board, but I'm unsure of what setting will stop the volume from hitting dangerous levels.

How about some suggestions for a limiter that I can patch into my mixer?

MNAirHead · #14 11-21-2012, 10:57 AM

Rip...
The issue is you're asking an unknown... way too many variables...

The reason to suggest the PSM200 is that it's pro caibrated to do what exactly you're asking for.... You could "patch" the body pack in to do what you're asking to accomplish.

I've tried outboard limiters from other devices... when/how/if they kick in was too risky.. more gear to schlep etc.

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When spending a year (2-3 hours a day) came to the conclusion that IF someone was to use a limiter... a prepackaged is the optimal option.... otherwise it's an unknown guess.

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To be clear... you said you wanted an IEM solution with limiter..

You listed a mixer - not tested IEM components....

Rip Topaz · #15 11-21-2012, 11:29 AM

Gotcha. Totally understand. I was hoping to just patch in a limiter, but I agree that it's too risky.

Hmm.. Guess I've got some shopping to do.

MNAirHead · #16 11-21-2012, 11:41 AM

Rip...

That being said... IF I know the nut behind the console (me or a trusted band mate)... I'll commit a sin and go without.

I tried stand alone limiters... I'd err on having them kick in too early ... was kind of distraticting having it "fall out"

IF they kick in too late, it's functionally just a "patched in" brick.

When I spoke with the Shure folks (yes call me a research nerd - couldn't find any real info on the topic)... they commented that there is tons and tons and tons of R&D and testing that goes into their limiting.

I believe it would be the same with other vendors... the PSM allows you to hardware if you choose (not all PSM models).

There "may" be a static-set limiter avaialble.. the issue is that putting it in the mixer signal chain makes it irrelevant.. you could still spike a ton of output with a fader or knob... the bus limter would not catch a volume increase .

Not sure if this makes sense...

Tim.

PS... lurkers are now welcome to tell me about an annointed friend who can mix a limter and save their ears --- unfortunately I gig in reality (and studios)

MNAirHead · #17 11-21-2012, 11:42 AM

I do wish one of the sound IEM bud vendors would incorporate this function into the earphones... kind of like a fuse.

KingRazor · #18 11-21-2012, 11:56 AM

One problem with limiters I've noticed is that they engage on the lower frequencies (stronger signal level) and not as much on higher frequencies, but the higher frequencies are more damaging to the ear...

Rip Topaz · #19 11-21-2012, 12:06 PM

Makes perfect sense to me. Hopefully this thread will stop others from senselessly killing their ears.

Rip Topaz · #20 11-21-2012, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

I do wish one of the sound IEM bud vendors would incorporate this function into the earphones... kind of like a fuse.

That's actually a good idea since that's where it needs to go. Anything before the buds can effect the volume, so tack it right into the buds. Kinda like the "airline attenuating" attachment that comes with most buds.