Live EQ

[KingRazor]

I'm one of the sound board operators at my church. I've been trying to learn what I can about equalization. Our board has a 4-band EQ with Low, Lo-Mid, Hi-Mid and High controls. You can set the frequency for each and then adjust the gain up and down. We also tend to use high pass filters on most stuff.

Any tips on EQ in general or good places to look for more info? I'm gonna do some googling but thought I'd ask here as well.

I think I've gotten the EQ on the bass in particular set up pretty well, I have the low mids boosted to help it cut through nicely and the treble dampaned a bit to hide finger noise.

[JimmyM]

two words...frequency slotting. if you're familiar with frequency slotting, you'll have no problems.

[KingRazor]

I'm not familiar with frequency slotting...yet

Edit: Okay so frequency slotting is just as I thought it was :P

I'm still not sure how to best make use of this 4-band EQ. I can set the frequency range on any instrument from probably 30 Hz (possibly lower) to about 10 KHz (possibly higher).

Is there even a reason to have a band that goes up to 10KHz on a bass? If not where should I have the "high" band?

Tips for using high pass filters on guitars and keyboards?

[TimmyP]

Subtractive EQ. Listen to each source and determine what there's too much of (for instance low mid on vocals) and attenuate it.

[NateS]

my little tidbit is that it's pretty much always better to cut than to boost - cutting doesn't "flavor" the sound, whereas boosting always "flavors" the sound as ho the EQ sounds, sometimes not for the best.

And, as you boost this a little, you then need to boost somewhere else a bit more, and you keep raising levels until everything is even again. Then you still feel the need to boost, but you can't, so what can you do? start over from flat again

[WayneP]

One thing I try to keep in mind is, “does it sound natural?” I.e., it’s common for male vocals in a PA to have too much lower end “bloom,” but that’s not the way they sound naturally (e.g. with no sound reinforcement). Same with other acoustic instruments like acoustic guitar and drums.

Another common problem to keep an eye on with vocalists is unnaturally boosted high end, which makes sibilants “sizzle.” Or not enough, which makes them sound like the speaker has a pillowcase over his/her mouth. The EQ adjustment for sibilants is ~6-7 kHz, if you have a frequency selection option.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt




Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

[JTE]

First, don't EQ just because you have the tools. LISTEN and decide carefully what's needed. Lots of folks make a big mistake with EQ- they can't distinguish between too much of one thing or not enough of another. It's muddy? They boost the highs instead of cutting the low mids.

The second rule then is, he who EQ's least, EQ's best. And go for a cut before you go for a boost.

Yeah, there's harmonic information in the bass that lives up above 8K. Maybe you need to do some stuff there, maybe not. But the assumption that because it's called bass, and the fundamentals are kinda low therefore it's got no highs, is just plain wrong. If bassists didn't need highs, then we'd all be playing Gibson EB-2 with dead flats while using 18" speakers and no tweeters. Nope, the reason MY bass sounds like it does is because the way the overtones sound.

So, rule 3 is don't go in with preconceived ideas about what the individual instruments/voices should sound like. Go back to rule #1 and LISTEN.

John

[KingRazor]

My question is more referring to what frequencies I should set the EQs to, not how much to boost each one :\

I realize that there are higher frequencies on the bass, just wasn't sure how high.

[WayneP]

Well, the frequencies you adjust depends on what you’re EQing. Perhaps this will help, something I picked up on a pro audio forum some years ago.


Key Frequencies for Voices and Various Instruments:
===================
Voices - Fullness at 120Hz; Boominess at 200 – 240 Hz; Speech recognition = 3kHz; Presence at 5 kHz; Sibilance at 6-7 kHz.
Harmonica - Sounds "Fat" at 240 Hz; will add "Bite" at 3 - 5kHz.
Conga - Resonant ring at 200 - 240k Hz; Presence and "Slap" at 5 kHz.
Bass Guitar - Attack or pluck is increased at 700 or 1 kHz; Bottom will be added at 60 or 80 Hz. String noise at 2.5kHz.
Bass Drum - "Slap" at 2.5 kHz; Bottom at 80Hz.
Snare Drum - Fatness at 240 Hz; Crispness at 1 - 2.5 kHz.
Hi-Hat and Cymbals - "Shimmer" at 7.5 – 10 kHz; "Klang" or Gong sound at approx. 200 Hz.
Toms - Attack at 5 kHz; Fullness at 240 Hz.
Floor Toms- Attack at 5 kHz; Fullness at 80 or 120 Hz.
Electric Guitar - Body at 240 Hz; Clarity at 2.5 kHz.
Acoustic Guitar- Body at 240 Hz; Clarity at 2.5 kHz.
Piano - Body at 80 – 120 Hz; Presence at 2.5 – 5 kHz; Crispness at 10 kHz; Honky-Tonk sound at 2.5 kHz as bandwidth is narrowed. Resonance at 40 – 60 Hz.
Horns - Fullness at 120 – 240 Hz; Shrill at 7.5 or 5 kHz.
======


Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by WayneP

Well, the frequencies you adjust depends on what you’re EQing. Perhaps this will help, something I picked up on a pro audio forum some years ago.


Key Frequencies for Voices and Various Instruments:
===================
Voices - Fullness at 120Hz; Boominess at 200 – 240 Hz; Speech recognition = 3kHz; Presence at 5 kHz; Sibilance at 6-7 kHz.
Harmonica - Sounds "Fat" at 240 Hz; will add "Bite" at 3 - 5kHz.
Conga - Resonant ring at 200 - 240k Hz; Presence and "Slap" at 5 kHz.
Bass Guitar - Attack or pluck is increased at 700 or 1 kHz; Bottom will be added at 60 or 80 Hz. String noise at 2.5kHz.
Bass Drum - "Slap" at 2.5 kHz; Bottom at 80Hz.
Snare Drum - Fatness at 240 Hz; Crispness at 1 - 2.5 kHz.
Hi-Hat and Cymbals - "Shimmer" at 7.5 – 10 kHz; "Klang" or Gong sound at approx. 200 Hz.
Toms - Attack at 5 kHz; Fullness at 240 Hz.
Floor Toms- Attack at 5 kHz; Fullness at 80 or 120 Hz.
Electric Guitar - Body at 240 Hz; Clarity at 2.5 kHz.
Acoustic Guitar- Body at 240 Hz; Clarity at 2.5 kHz.
Piano - Body at 80 – 120 Hz; Presence at 2.5 – 5 kHz; Crispness at 10 kHz; Honky-Tonk sound at 2.5 kHz as bandwidth is narrowed. Resonance at 40 – 60 Hz.
Horns - Fullness at 120 – 240 Hz; Shrill at 7.5 or 5 kHz.
======


Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

Okay help me out here because there must be something I'm not getting.

let's say I'm EQing a bass

I have a low-band set at 60Hz. Gain is set to 0.

I have a lo-mid band set to, say, 200Hz. Gain is set to 0.

I have a hi-mid band set to, say, 2.24KHz. Gain set to 0.

And, finally, I have a high band set to 10KHz. Gain set to 0.

What would you do?

[WayneP]

My objective, as a bass player and sound guy, is to try to make sure the full range of the bass comes through, from the lowest notes to the highest. The lowest notes on a bass are in the 35 Hz range for a 5-string, and 40 Hz for a 4-string, and the highest fundamentals are in the 400 Hz range.

Since you say you have frequency selection on all the EQ bands, it’s pretty easy. If you feel part of the bass range is not coming through well, just boost the gain knob a few dB and sweep the frequency knob. When you hit the “sweet spot,” the weak notes will suddenly come through.

Same thing if you feel some part of the bass range is boomy: Boost a few dB, and sweep the frequency knob. When you hit the boomy place, it’ll really get obnoxious. Once you’ve located the offending frequency, cut the gain knob a few dB below "0".

Hope this helps.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

[fokof]

I learned by refering to notes.

Learn the frequency vs note table like this one;
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html

So when you hear a G ringing , you'll know it's around 50hz.


(A third octave EQ tells you what it is ; Major thirds.)

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by fokof

I learned by refering to notes.

Learn the frequency vs note table like this one;
http://www.phy.mtu.edu/~suits/notefreqs.html

So when you hear a G ringing , you'll know it's around 50hz.


(A third octave EQ tells you what it is ; Major thirds.)

Right but the problem is that when you play a note on the bass there are multiple frequencies generated by the vibration of the strings, not just the 50Hz or so. As someone mentioned earlier, the bass produces some frequencies in the thousands of Hz.

I think I'm just gonna leave the EQ alone. Our main sound guy has a pretty good set up going right now, and I just don't have the experience or the time to fiddle with them too much.

[JimmyM]

well what you can do is take a graphic eq or a graphic eq plugin for a computer and try to find some solo instrument recordings. then run the eq on it and boost and cut every slider to hear what happens. best to try it with headphones or a good set of cabs. then you get a more clear idea of the strong eq ranges for each instrument. and your idea of what sounds good may vary from charts like wayne posted and that's cool. but it probably won't vary a whole lot...that chart seems like a pretty good starting place for everything.

[LightGroove]

[quote=WayneP;9523072][font="Comic Sans MS"]
Well, the frequencies you adjust depends on what you’re EQing. Perhaps this will help, something I picked up on a pro audio forum some years ago.


Key Frequencies for Voices and Various Instruments:
===================
Voices - Fullness at 120Hz; Boominess at 200 – 240 Hz; Speech recognition = 3kHz; Presence at 5 kHz; Sibilance at 6-7 kHz.
Harmonica - Sounds "Fat" at 240 Hz; will add "Bite" at 3 - 5kHz.
Conga - Resonant ring at 200 - 240k Hz; Presence and "Slap" at 5 kHz.
Bass Guitar - Attack or pluck is increased at 700 or 1 kHz; Bottom will be added at 60 or 80 Hz. String noise at 2.5kHz.
Bass Drum - "Slap" at 2.5 kHz; Bottom at 80Hz.
Snare Drum - Fatness at 240 Hz; Crispness at 1 - 2.5 kHz.
Hi-Hat and Cymbals - "Shimmer" at 7.5 – 10 kHz; "Klang" or Gong sound at approx. 200 Hz.
Toms - Attack at 5 kHz; Fullness at 240 Hz.
Floor Toms- Attack at 5 kHz; Fullness at 80 or 120 Hz.
Electric Guitar - Body at 240 Hz; Clarity at 2.5 kHz.
Acoustic Guitar- Body at 240 Hz; Clarity at 2.5 kHz.
Piano - Body at 80 – 120 Hz; Presence at 2.5 – 5 kHz; Crispness at 10 kHz; Honky-Tonk sound at 2.5 kHz as bandwidth is narrowed. Resonance at 40 – 60 Hz.
Horns - Fullness at 120 – 240 Hz; Shrill at 7.5 or 5 kHz.
======

Wayne...you again ROCK! Quick question and I hope not to derail too bad. How does one eq to these specific frequencies with a limited budget. Im my case our board has fixed 3 band frequencies with no sweepability. Is there a cost effective solution to get this tweekability for each instrument?

[WayneP]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Right but the problem is that when you play a note on the bass there are multiple frequencies generated by the vibration of the strings, not just the 50Hz or so. As someone mentioned earlier, the bass produces some frequencies in the thousands of Hz.

Any note will be comprised of the fundamental plus harmonics that are mostly above the fundamental, but to some extent below it as well. The harmonics are what give the instrument its particular sound. Remove the harmonics, and all you have is a sine wave.

Depending on the particular instrument and the speaker system employed, you can have issues with either the fundamentals or certain harmonics being excessive or deficient (although the former is typically what’s audibly objectionable). Either problem can be addressed to at least a certain extent with parametric equalization and the “sweep” method I described in my previous post.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

[WayneP]

Thanks for the kind words, LightGroove.

Originally Posted by LightGroove

How does one eq to these specific frequencies with a limited budget. Im my case our board has fixed 3 band frequencies with no sweepability. Is there a cost effective solution to get this tweekability for each instrument?

For each instrument? Cost effective? No. It would require replacing the entire console.

However, if certain mics/instruments are in dire need of more flexible equalization, then a parametric EQ could be inserted across that channel (using its “Insert” jack). You can get decent analog parametrics on eBay from manufacturers like Rane, Ashly, Symetrix and Orban dirt cheap these days, since more and more systems are using digital consoles that have powerful per-channel EQ sections (although I’d avoid the Rane PE 15 like the plague). IMO parametric EQ for the bass is great to have, since you don’t get more than one or two course adjustments from the typical analog console.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt



Pedulla Club #45
Administrator, Tobias Club
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

[walker rosewood]

he who EQ's least, EQ's best

so true.


I have nothing to contribute that hasn't already been said, except to say that chart has a lot of things at 240 and 2.5k. Those are obviously approximate, and it would be unwise to boost everything in the mix at the same freq. Best example is most guys will boost kick and 60hz and bass guitar at 80hz, or vise versa.


...and I'll add a personal gripe... if your cutting/boosting more then 5db on anything it's probably too much. Just because a particular eq will go +/- 15db doesn't mean you should!

[fokof]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Right but the problem is that when you play a note on the bass there are multiple frequencies generated by the vibration of the strings, not just the 50Hz or so. As someone mentioned earlier, the bass produces some frequencies in the thousands of Hz.

I think I'm just gonna leave the EQ alone. Our main sound guy has a pretty good set up going right now, and I just don't have the experience or the time to fiddle with them too much.

The point is ; Ear training.

A "G" is 50/100/200/400/800/ etc.... you just have to figure wich octave. (wich is very easy)

It's not something you'll learn overnight , take lots of training.

I must add also that being able to identify a note on the fly is also something that needs ear training.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by fokof

The point is ; Ear training.

A "G" is 50/100/200/400/800/ etc.... you just have to figure wich octave. (wich is very easy)

It's not something you'll learn overnight , take lots of training.

I must add also that being able to identify a note on the fly is also something that needs ear training.

I don't see how this has anything to do with my posts :\

Thanks for the info so far everyone.

I think I'm going to lower the high band on the bass from 9KHz down to maybe 3KHz or so and turn it down if there's too much finger noise. Probably lower the Hi-Mid band from 2.5KHz down to maybe 1KHz, Lo-Mid down to probably about 500 and then Low to around 80. I have a high-pass filter cutting everything below 45Hz or so, as our speakers can't really take anything that low.