Live recording help

Arr MiHardies · #1 09-03-2011, 10:35 AM

My church recently got a Dante card installed in our mix rack so we can do live recordings. However, we are getting pops and clicks at regular intervals affecting every input seemingly randomly. The surface is an Allen & Heath iLive T112, and we are recurring to a new Mac Pro 2.8 Ghz Quad Core Xeon. I know the hard drive is a 1 TB 7200 rpm drive, but I'm not sure if there has been a memory upgrade from the base 3 GB. I know the worship leader mentioned they have to reboot into 32 bit mode because either the Dante controller or the virtual sound card drivers are only 32 bit, and that just doesn't sound right to me. Does anyone have any suggestions?

pasta4lnch · #2 09-03-2011, 10:37 AM

clicks and pops sound like sample rate issues. . .

Jimbob Jones · #3 09-03-2011, 11:27 AM

Your system is frighteningly similar to mine! (T112, IDR-48, iMac, Dante card)

Yes, you definitely need to boot the computer in 32-bit mode for the virtual soundcard to work properly. Just hold the '3' and '2' keys simultaneously while you power the computer up.

What recording software are you using?

MNAirHead · #4 09-03-2011, 11:31 AM

It's a sample and hardware mismatch issue

Let's start with the basics

Downgrade all sample rates

What driver are you using asio4all is a good basic one

Arr MiHardies · #5 09-03-2011, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbob Jones

Your system is frighteningly similar to mine! (T112, IDR-48, iMac, Dante card)

Yes, you definitely need to boot the computer in 32-bit mode for the virtual soundcard to work properly. Just hold the '3' and '2' keys simultaneously while you power the computer up.

What recording software are you using?

We are using logic pro at the moment.

Arr MiHardies · #6 09-03-2011, 12:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

It's a sample and hardware mismatch issue

Let's start with the basics

Downgrade all sample rates

What driver are you using asio4all is a good basic one

Asio4all is a pc driver. Not a Mac driver. I believe the system is running the Dante controller software provided by Dante and the Dante provided virtual sound card. Are there third party versions of these for the Mac? I've done some searching but haven't turned up anything. I'd like to load this software on my MacBook Pro as well but the church wont want to pay for a second license.

ggunn · #7 09-03-2011, 12:35 PM

One thing to consider is that board mix recordings at small shows, if it's the FOH mix that's being recorded, rarely have a good mix, since the FOH sound in the hall is the sound from the mains overlaid with the sound from the stage. If the guitarist (for example) is playing so loud that he isn't in the mains at all, he won't be on the recording.

Jimbob Jones · #8 09-03-2011, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arr MiHardies

We are using logic pro at the moment.

Cool, I don't have much experience of Logic, but I doubt that it will be the source of the problem.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

It's a sample and hardware mismatch issue

As long as Logic is set to the same sample rate as the virtual soundcard, there can't be a mismatch anywhere else in the system AFAIK.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ggunn

One thing to consider is that board mix recordings at small shows, if it's the FOH mix that's being recorded, rarely have a good mix, since the FOH sound in the hall is the sound from the mains overlaid with the sound from the stage. If the guitarist (for example) is playing so loud that he isn't in the mains at all, he won't be on the recording.

The Dante system allows you to multitrack every channel seperately, pre-fade, pre-EQ.

MNAirHead · #9 09-03-2011, 12:52 PM

You can emulate a pc from Mac

Our first quests to get a clean recording

I own both platforms

To start audacity via asio is the fastest solution

Arr MiHardies · #10 09-03-2011, 01:21 PM

the recording quality is great. minus the regular popping and clicking. I found some advice about clock settings on an A&H thread that didnt show up last time i did a search for the issue. Suggested some clocking issues. like setting the idr to be the master clock and to have it use the external clock. I'll also double check the sample rate tonight. what sample rate should we use? Im seeing advice generally 48k 24 bit on similar set ups. Though the clock issue seems to be the cause for most of the people on that thread.

@JimBob We were told that we can play the recordings back through the surface and back into the house but havent figured out how to accomplish that yet. Have you tried this at all?

ggunn · #11 09-03-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arr MiHardies

the recording quality is great. minus the regular popping and clicking. I found some advice about clock settings on an A&H thread that didnt show up last time i did a search for the issue. Suggested some clocking issues. like setting the idr to be the master clock and to have it use the external clock. I'll also double check the sample rate tonight. what sample rate should we use? Im seeing advice generally 48k 24 bit on similar set ups. Though the clock issue seems to be the cause for most of the people on that thread.

@JimBob We were told that we can play the recordings back through the surface and back into the house but havent figured out how to accomplish that yet. Have you tried this at all?

I like to use 24 bit and 44.1kHz sampling. The difference in recording quality between 44.1 and 48 is negligible, and if you want to burn to CD the conversion is simpler.

Jimbob Jones · #12 09-03-2011, 02:27 PM

Yup, 48k 24 bit is fine, just make sure that everything's set that way!

Firstly, you'll want to create a new scene for playback, as it takes quite a lot of set up to get it working, and it disables live signals from being passed through the desk. When you recall another scene, everything goes back to normal though, so don't panic!

I'll double check this tomorrow, but from memory: firstly, have your new scene recalled, and the mac set up, ready for playback, with the virtual soundcard enabled. Select the first channel and go to 'preamp' on the touchscreen (it'll be in the list along with gate, PEQ, comp etc). At the top of the preamp screen, there should be a small drop-down menu with 'IDR mix rack' selected. Change this to 'Dante virtual soundcard'. AFAIK the channel number and other details don't need to change. Once you press 'Apply', the channel will now listen to the mac's playback of the corresponding channel, rather than that input on the mixrack.

Unfortuantely, you have to do this to every channel that you want to play back, but once you've done it 48 times, you can save it and (in theory) shouldn't have to do it again!

Just to reiterate: once you change the channel to from 'mixrack' 'virtual soundcard', any signal sent into that input of the mixrack will be ignored, so be careful!

I'll double check all this tomorrow, and post back if I've said anything that's not quite accurate.

Hope that helps!

Joe

Arr MiHardies · #13 09-03-2011, 11:03 PM

Found a thread elsewhere that I must have missed in previous searches. Turns out the pops were a clock issue. Once I clicked the master clock checkbox and the external clock box, the pops went away. Still trying to figure out how to play the recordings back through the surface though.

I went to channel input, changed the source from IDR mix rack to Port B: Dante ( I think that was the name). Not entirely sure what else on the scene to change. Also not sure what the settings need to be in Logic to send the recordings to the surface.

@JimBob what software do you use?

Jimbob Jones · #14 09-04-2011, 05:17 AM

Glad to hear you resolved your issue!

We use Reaper to record...it's cheap, does the job, and you can save templates so that (in theory) you only need to set it up once.

I just checked the desk, you're right, change each channel to 'Port B: Dante'. That's all you have to do to the desk for playback. I'm not sure how Logic works, but you'll probably need to set up your outputs in the software; look at the IO settings for each channel. You should be able to change the output from the mac's soundcard to the Dante virtual soundcard.

Arr MiHardies · #15 09-05-2011, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jimbob Jones

Glad to hear you resolved your issue!

We use Reaper to record...it's cheap, does the job, and you can save templates so that (in theory) you only need to set it up once.

I just checked the desk, you're right, change each channel to 'Port B: Dante'. That's all you have to do to the desk for playback. I'm not sure how Logic works, but you'll probably need to set up your outputs in the software; look at the IO settings for each channel. You should be able to change the output from the mac's soundcard to the Dante virtual soundcard.

Do I need to change the channel number from 1 to whatever to match the ip channel of the input?