Live Sound Issues: Bass sounds like a wall of vibration(s) on stage.

[Cloverfield]

I played a country gig last night at school to sort of kick of the new school year for all the new freshmen (and all the older students who already arrived early to party the whole week), and I ran into a problem with my onstage sound.

Apparently the sound was great in the audience, and there weren't any problems. But from my vantage point on stage, I couldn't really hear what I was playing most of the time... I could feel it! But I couldn't hear it. Does that make sense?
IMO, it's best/necessary to be able to do both.

So what's the issue here, or is there one? I know little to nothing about live sound (something I'll be studying this next couple of years).

Oh, btw, I was playing a Lakland Darryl Jones 4-string through a GK 700RB-II into an Avatar B410 cab. They were running my signal directly through the direct out on my head.

Thanks guys.

[brendanbassist]

Originally Posted by Cloverfield

I played a country gig last night at school to sort of kick of the new school year for all the new freshmen (and all the older students who already arrived early to party the whole week), and I ran into a problem with my onstage sound.

Apparently the sound was great in the audience, and there weren't any problems. But from my vantage point on stage, I couldn't really hear what I was playing most of the time... I could feel it! But I couldn't hear it. Does that make sense?
IMO, it's best/necessary to be able to do both.

So what's the issue here, or is there one? I know little to nothing about live sound (something I'll be studying this next couple of years).

Oh, btw, I was playing a Lakland Darryl Jones 4-string through a GK 700RB-II into an Avatar B410 cab. They were running my signal directly through the direct out on my head.

Thanks guys.

Try cutting out the lows below 150Hz or so. Should remove some of the "boominess".

[rockstarbassist]

Yup.
100-150hz can really be deadly in the wrong hands. Of course for country, I used to boost 50-250hz and it was killer.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Cloverfield

I played a country gig last night at school to sort of kick of the new school year for all the new freshmen (and all the older students who already arrived early to party the whole week), and I ran into a problem with my onstage sound.

Apparently the sound was great in the audience, and there weren't any problems. But from my vantage point on stage, I couldn't really hear what I was playing most of the time... I could feel it! But I couldn't hear it. Does that make sense?
IMO, it's best/necessary to be able to do both.

So what's the issue here, or is there one? I know little to nothing about live sound (something I'll be studying this next couple of years).

Oh, btw, I was playing a Lakland Darryl Jones 4-string through a GK 700RB-II into an Avatar B410 cab. They were running my signal directly through the direct out on my head.

Thanks guys.

Did you play a room with a hard floor, hard walls and a high ceiling ... like a gym? That will make any rig sound boomy. To get a better onstage sound boost mids.

[taurus1]

get used to crappy sound on stage, some will be better than others. until you're headling arenas, the sky is the limit on the good and the bad as far as stage sound goes.

[guroove]

Turn down your master volume on your amp, and ask for some bass in the monitors, or even better - the side fills if the stage has them.

[Drop-the-One]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

Yup.
100-150hz can really be deadly in the wrong hands. Of course for country, I used to boost 50-250hz and it was killer.

That seems to be standard, especially in closed venues. Up to 350hz for electrics in certain places..

... darn-you 150hz! *shakes fist

[Cloverfield]

@ Everyone - It was actually an outdoor gig on campus.

And how do I "cut out the lows below ~150Hz"? The EQ controls on my amp are as follows:
Bass: Boost and cut at 60Hz +/- 10dB, shelving type.
Low Mid: Boost and cut at 250Hz +/- 10dB, shelving type.
In my case, just cut the Bass frequency on my amp is what you're all essentially telling me collectively, right?

Originally Posted by guroove

Turn down your master volume on your amp, and ask for some bass in the monitors, or even better - the side fills if the stage has them.

I will try this next time. Sounds good.

[rockstarbassist]

Yeah, I would try cutting the Bass and boost the Low Mids a bit to cut out the "boom". Of course whoever was/is running the PA should do that too, if you're running relatively flat onboard the amp.

[Cloverfield]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

Yeah, I would try cutting the Bass and boost the Low Mids a bit to cut out the "boom". Of course whoever was/is running the PA should do that too, if you're running relatively flat onboard the amp.

I was running completely flat on the amp. I know it didn't sound overly boomy in the mix that the people were hearing though because numerous people after the show told me it sounded great. So I definitely think turning down my amp on stage and asking for more bass in the mix would have been good. Besides, the drummer was complaining that he couldn't hear me worth a crap anyway.

[rockstarbassist]

That's weird you are getting "boom" on an outdoor gig.
Was it at an amphitheater or something? I'm not sure if it was outdoors what you'd be bouncing off of to even get that kinda feedback.

[lunarpollen]

If you're playing on a big hollow stage, it's ALWAYS gonna sound weird when you are standing on it. Make sure that if you mess with your EQ to compensate, do it BEFORE soundcheck.

[Cloverfield]

Originally Posted by rockstarbassist

That's weird you are getting "boom" on an outdoor gig.
Was it at an amphitheater or something? I'm not sure if it was outdoors what you'd be bouncing off of to even get that kinda feedback.

Well, it's on a relatively cramped campus with numerous large buildings surrounding the area where the stage was, which was right in front of a staircase with a large grassy area in front of it where the people stood, so there's lots of big buildings. Sound from shows bounces everywhere there. You can hear a show over by the frat houses.

Originally Posted by lunarpollen

If you're playing on a big hollow stage, it's ALWAYS gonna sound weird when you are standing on it. Make sure that if you mess with your EQ to compensate, do it BEFORE soundcheck.

And yeah, I would have spent more time properly EQing, but there was three bands playing -- we were the second -- and tear down and setup time was supposed to take place in 15 minute segments between groups, so everyone was a little rushed.

[newwavefrank]

make sure your speakers are pointed at your ears, not at your legs. You should be able to hear yourself even at lower volumes

[Cloverfield]

Originally Posted by newwavefrank

make sure your speakers are pointed at your ears, not at your legs. You should be able to hear yourself even at lower volumes

How would I ensure this running a sole Avatar B410 Neo cabinet that sits on the ground/floor? Or is the solution just to bring both my cabinets and stack them (and lower the volume) so that the top one is pointed more towards my ears and not my legs?

[thudfromafar]

Make sure the contour is all the way left (off).
Make sure the 5-string button is pushed out (off).

If you boost anything, I'd say boost the high mids. Try cutting low-mids and/or bass, either one of those could be the culprit.

[Cloverfield]

Originally Posted by thudfromafar

Make sure the contour is all the way left (off).
Make sure the 5-string button is pushed out (off).

If you boost anything, I'd say boost the high mids. Try cutting low-mids and/or bass, either one of those could be the culprit.

A) I'll make sure to turn the contour all the way off next time. It was set to about halfway at the gig, if I remember correctly, so it could've been worse, but I suppose it could've been better as well.

B) The 5-string button was indeed off, set to 4-string.

C) Thanks for the suggestion. I'll make sure to more properly EQ next time. Like I said, we were rushed. Otherwise I think we would've done a quick soundcheck with everyone before officially starting.



Thanks everybody for the tips and feedback!!

[walterw]

turning down your perfectly good bass rig and trying to force what may be inadequate monitors to "carry your load" is just silly. if you each have your own mix it might be OK (but pointless since an actual bass amp is right there), otherwise it will tend to mess up everybody else's mix.

+1 to keeping the rig EQ'ed fairly flat. you could also angle it up a few degrees to get it pointed closer to your ears, more if you set the head on the floor beside the cab.

[Cloverfield]

Originally Posted by walterw

turning down your perfectly good bass rig and trying to force what may be inadequate monitors to "carry your load" is just silly. if you each have your own mix it might be OK (but pointless since an actual bass amp is right there), otherwise it will tend to mess up everybody else's mix.

+1 to keeping the rig EQ'ed fairly flat. you could also angle it up a few degrees to get it pointed closer to your ears, more if you set the head on the floor beside the cab.

I understand that boosting the bass in the overall mix would typically be a bad solution to this, except that the drummer specifically said he couldn't hear me hardly at all. But generally, not a good rule of thumb to go by in solving a sound issue like this; I get what you're saying.

Never thought about setting the head on the floor next to the cab to angle the cabinet...I'd rather not go to that (odd of) length to solving this problem though.

I think I'll just trying cutting the bass and/or low mids a bit next time and make sure to turn the contour all the way off. That should do something.

Thanks for all the input though, guys. And more is welcome!

[christoph h.]

let me just say that i always angle my cabinet and it works great!