Lost in mix

[HMZ]

My band has rehearsal at the drummers house. His basement has sound foam on all the walls and ceiling. It works great for keeping the sound contained but its driving me mad to get a good bass sound. What it comes down to is. I can get a sound that will cut thought but no low end or I get low end but no cut and can't be heard. My equipment is the following. Fender Jazz or Pbass Markbass little mark II, GK 2x10 cab.

[dougjwray]

My guess is that your sound is too scooped (too few mids) and/or you're underpowered in the speaker department.
If your band is loud, you might need an additional 2x10 cab, or you could trade in your 2x10 and spent some additional cash for a 4x10.
In the meantime, I'd experiment with starting out with a flat EQ on the amp, and then, if both pickups are full up on your Jazz Bass, backing off the bridge pickup. Jazz Basses are famous for sounding lusciously rich and smooth with both pickups up all the way, but that sound often doesn't have the ugly mids necessary for cutting through in a band situation. Backing off on the bridge pickup will give you a midrange "bark" that will cut through better. (Backing off on the neck pickup will give you more mids, too-- different mids which will cut through, but you'll miss some bottom end in your sound.) Or, just use your Precision Bass all the time!
Finally, they might not fit your genre of music (I don't know) but flatwound strings have a dry, percussive sound that helps cut through loud guitars and drums. I like D'Addario Chromes and GHS Precision Flats.
Hope this helps, and good luck!

[modulusman]

If it is at rehearsal then the only thing you should be really concerned with is whether you and your band mates can hear you IMO.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by HMZ

My band has rehearsal at the drummers house. His basement has sound foam on all the walls and ceiling. It works great for keeping the sound contained but its driving me mad to get a good bass sound. What it comes down to is. I can get a sound that will cut thought but no low end or I get low end but no cut and can't be heard. My equipment is the following. Fender Jazz or Pbass Markbass little mark II, GK 2x10 cab.

Aim for reinforcing the low-mids / mids so you can be heard. The low you seek is ever-present but, if boosted, can mask any semblance of definition ("cut"). Keep in mind that you're rehearsing in a basement so certain concessions will be in order.

Riis

[dougjwray]

Good suggestions.
Other thoughts: Is your 2x10 lying horizontal or sitting on end? If it's horizontal, your ankles might be getting most of the sound, especially if you're in a cramped rehearsal space and you can't stand at any distance away. Also, could you tilt it back-- point it at your head? Are your bandmates having trouble hearing you, or is it just *you* having trouble hearing yourself? Placement of the cab could sort all this out, maybe.

[HMZ]

First off I do have my amp set flat. This works great with the mark bass amp. Second I have the cab vertical on a milk crate. If I have one the floor I can't hear my self. The other members do have a hard time hearing sometimes.. I use to bring a second 2x10 cab and stack them vertical. That acually worked but i need they other cab for gigs. I guess the Answer is to buy another cab. When gigging I use two agular 2 x10 cabs. Next week I'm going to bring the p bass and see if it's any better. Thanks for the help.

[mcm]

you need 2 15's or a 2x12 or a 4x10. a 2x10 does not cut it, i dont care what anybody says. also get some flats

[HMZ]

Originally Posted by mcm

you need 2 15's or a 2x12 or a 4x10. a 2x10 does not cut it, i dont care what anybody says. also get some flats

Its for rehearsal. I think two 15's in a basement rehearsal space would be insane but thanks for your input.

[bassphreak]

Few questions that come to mind....What's everyone else playing equipment-wise? How loud is the drummer? What type of music do you play? What volume do you play at? Can the others (esp the drummer hear you)? Each of these will help dissect the issue a bit better.

The MB is a great head, the 210 should be good for practice, unless the guitars are playing at 'stage/gig volume' then you will be lost. Also, I know the MB heads have the VME and other control. Those WILL have a huge impact on sound and can turn a flat eq to mud.

[WayneP]

“Can’t hear my bass” issues can usually all be traced back to the same problem. My guess is that your bandmates have so much bass cranked up in their amps that they’re drowning you out. See here for more info.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Administrator, Tobias Club
Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

[aerodyne1]

IMO 4-10's and lose the flats

[rtslinger]

Originally Posted by WayneP

“Can’t hear my bass” issues can usually all be traced back to the same problem. My guess is that your bandmates have so much bass cranked up in their amps that they’re drowning you out. See here for more info.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Administrator, Tobias Club
Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

+1

[Phalex]

Originally Posted by modulusman

If it is at rehearsal then the only thing you should be really concerned with is whether you and your band mates can hear you IMO.

+1!

[pjmuck]

Originally Posted by WayneP

“Can’t hear my bass” issues can usually all be traced back to the same problem. My guess is that your bandmates have so much bass cranked up in their amps that they’re drowning you out. See here for more info.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Administrator, Tobias Club
Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

+1, and I'll also question the levels you guys are rehearsing at. Very few bands EQ themselves as a whole band to find the right balance of instruments. Usually the drummer's off doing his thing, the guitarist is turned up to 11, etc. The band should be collectively going for an overall blend, filling in proper range of frequencies as mentioned. There is absolutely NO reason why any of you should be unheard in a basement rehearsal setting, even with the equipment you currently have. Turn down! Then get everyone to EQ accordingly so your bass can slot in nicely.

[plangentmusic]

Here's a little secret.

Three things.

400hz, 2k, more volume.

[mcm]

i always like to have more of everyting whenever i play, practice or gig. this is because i wont have to depend on my genius bandmates to turn down or play softer. they never do.

[HMZ]

Originally Posted by WayneP

“Can’t hear my bass” issues can usually all be traced back to the same problem. My guess is that your bandmates have so much bass cranked up in their amps that they’re drowning you out. See here for more info.

Regards,
Wayne A. Pflughaupt


Administrator, Tobias Club
Pedulla Club #45
Big Cabs Club #23
My Rig: Stage and FOH Friendly

Great advice....I think this is part of the problem. One of the guitar players last week told me during rehearsal "turn down a bit" as he proceeded to raise his volume. The next thing I hear from the other guitar and keyboard players is "we can't hear you" Its the classic guitar player mind set...I must be twice as loud as everyone one else! It drives me crazy. Its a battle that no one wins. If I get loader then the guitars turn up. The last gig I just let them go and I was happy I could barley hear myself enough to play. I was told we were too loud and it sounded like mush. Which I'm sure it did.

[shadow_FIX]

You can cut with a 2x10 for rehearsal.

You CAN cut with a 2x10 for rehearsal.

You don't need flats...that's a silly suggestion unless you want a change of tone.

As said above, low mids/mids are one method. I like to give the low mid knob on my LMIII just a little bit. Do you use the VPF knob at all? While it's a very useful function, it should more rather be labelled as a "scoop" knob. Use it sparingly.

The issue with bandmates having to much bass in their sound is a real world problem that can even be committed by non-amateurs. I had a few gigs in a row with my jazz professor, who was very excited about his new vintage hollowbody and how warm it sounded through his Fender tube amp. It sounded warm, but his bass knob was...wait for it...ALL THE WAY UP. Gave me no sonic space to work with. This is a cardinal sin committed by keys players too, especially the ones with a heavy left hand.

[dougjwray]

Originally Posted by shadow_FIX

You can cut with a 2x10 for rehearsal.

You CAN cut with a 2x10 for rehearsal.

You don't need flats...that's a silly suggestion unless you want a change of tone.

As said above, low mids/mids are one method. I like to give the low mid knob on my LMIII just a little bit. Do you use the VPF knob at all? While it's a very useful function, it should more rather be labelled as a "scoop" knob. Use it sparingly.

The issue with bandmates having to much bass in their sound is a real world problem that can even be committed by non-amateurs. I had a few gigs in a row with my jazz professor, who was very excited about his new vintage hollowbody and how warm it sounded through his Fender tube amp. It sounded warm, but his bass knob was...wait for it...ALL THE WAY UP. Gave me no sonic space to work with. This is a cardinal sin committed by keys players too, especially the ones with a heavy left hand.

I played for years with an acoustic guitarist/singer-songwriter who used to routinely, specifically, ask for more 100 Hz when we soundchecked. When he strummed, he also used to mute a lot with his picking hand for a big, chunky sound. He played solo gigs, and all this would work just fine in that situation, but it made me disappear in the mix when the two of us played together. Finally, we happened to have a discussion with a soundman who often worked with James Taylor. It turns out that James often asked for the same thing (boosting around 100 Hz), and the soundman would politely find a way to refuse. That finally convinced my friend.
Anyway, the longer this thread goes on, the more it sounds like the problem lies with bandmates who don't understand the concept of tailoring their personal EQ and volume to make the whole thing sound clear.

[Zooberwerx]

Originally Posted by dougjwray

I played for years with an acoustic guitarist/singer-songwriter who used to routinely, specifically, ask for more 100 Hz when we soundchecked. When he strummed, he also used to mute a lot with his picking hand for a big, chunky sound. He played solo gigs, and all this would work just fine in that situation, but it made me disappear in the mix when the two of us played together. Finally, we happened to have a discussion with a soundman who often worked with James Taylor. It turns out that James often asked for the same thing (boosting around 100 Hz), and the soundman would politely find a way to refuse. That finally convinced my friend.
Anyway, the longer this thread goes on, the more it sounds like the problem lies with bandmates who don't understand the concept of tailoring their personal EQ and volume to make the whole thing sound clear.

Ah, the old "125 hz sonic wars"...the battle continues. As Doug points out, the conflict is emphasized in a live venue setting creating a less-than-pleasing FOH balance.

Riis