Loud guitarist problem

brothernewt · #1 06-19-2011, 12:56 PM

I’m posting in live sound because the problem is slightly different than the standard “I need to be un-godly loud to get my sound” problem and I don’t feel like it’s a band management issue. Our guitar player is a good guy, generally reasonable, and we’re not going to fire him… the problem: he’s deaf as a post. He cranks his amps, just so he can hear. He cranks the treble because that’s where the most hearing loss is (of course). This makes his guitar sound like an ice pick; it’s apparently very muffled sounding to him if he doesn’t. His monitor mix has to be terribly loud, so much so that it interferes with FOH sound (and stage mix as well obviously).

There has been some give with the eq. Also we adjust at the board when we can, but often we’re in small enough places that it’s not enough. We’ve tried segregating him to one side; monitors/amps pointed sideways (away from the rest of the band) but it’s not very effective and not very practical in many places we play. We’re a 5 piece bar/cover band, and upgrading to in-ears isn’t very practical financially (not to mention, most of the band doesn’t like them anyway). We usually run a smallish PA from the stage so there’s not usually a dedicated sound guy to help with this. Even when there is, the issue’s still pretty much the same.

I’m out of ideas. Any thoughts or suggestions would be appreciated…

The Diaper Geni · #2 06-19-2011, 01:04 PM

I don't know much about this subject, but probably some in ear monitors (IEM's) would help?

pthunder7 · #3 06-19-2011, 01:14 PM

The band needs to discuss it with him. The best solution is to just buy him the in-ears; unfortunately, neither scenario is ideal for his ears, though the greater good is served. The band could pony up the money for his in-ears, and then perhaps someone else can set his amp for optimal "band" sound. He could have his "ears" mixed to his liking (hearing) and everything else should be good. If he is reluctant, perhaps you could work with an engineer to make a recording of the band live in a way that would contrast how his live sound is impacting the overall sound of the band; there is of course the jeopardy that his ego may believe what he is doing sound good, but perhaps and engineer could compensate the entire mix to his hearing making the band sound good to his hearing while making his volume and tone as annoying to him as it is to you; basically mixing the entire band to his hearing handicap.

salcott · #4 06-19-2011, 01:17 PM

Plexiglass cage; amp at ear level.

allexcosta · #5 06-19-2011, 01:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brothernewt

we’re not going to fire him… the problem: he’s deaf as a post.

This is like saying: "our surgeon suffered a stroke and can't control his hands now, but we're gonna keep him operating".

Musicians need to be able to hear sounds, period. Even Beethoven couldn't keep playing after having a hearing loss...

oldrockerdude · #6 06-19-2011, 01:26 PM

Are you in My Band? Is This Tim?

brothernewt · #7 06-19-2011, 01:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by allexcosta

This is like saying: "our surgeon suffered a stroke and can't control his hands now, but we're gonna keep him operating".

Very valid point... but we're weekend warriors with day jobs. We do it for fun mostly and maybe a litte extra spending money. If it was the primary income, we might have to look at that option.

pthunder7 - I hadn't tought of recording the problem. The only recordings we've done, have been compensated to make it all sound as good as possible. Great idea, thank you!

oldrockerdude - Nope, not Tim, but we should get them together. It would be Epic. I'm upgrading my plugs to the 25dB model first though!

MikeBC · #8 06-19-2011, 04:40 PM

Some musicians in my area are hawking for this ear clinic and their products and services.

Musicians Ear Products New Braunfels, Texas | Estes Audiology

I have no experience with any of this alto at my age I should look into it. Anyway maybe this is the sort of thing you should investigate for your guitarist and group.

JustDavid · #9 06-19-2011, 04:52 PM

If it's screwing up the product (FOH Sound) I'd say you have to take action. I don't see any other than IEMs for this guitarist.

slaphappychappy · #10 06-19-2011, 04:56 PM

teh guy i record with is a little like that, and everything ends up very shrill sounding if I leave him to mix everything. What has happened over time with me is that he has learned to trust my judgement. I dont know if that can apply to live sound, or how deaf your guy is, but the in ear monitor is probably the better of ideas I could think of too. At the end of the day, if it is ruining the bands sound, it does come to a point where you have to ask yourself if its worth it for the long run having someone that has hearing problems. One of the guys I know is one of the best drummers i have ever come across, but due to a burst eardrum he cannot play much anymore. It upsets him, but at the end of the day, it was affecting his live playing. He does a little bit of studio stuff now instead.

bobodechimp · #11 06-19-2011, 05:26 PM

big ups on not firing him because of a disability. I got sick and had to go to the hospital for a wile meaning that i would miss two big gigs. did my band mate find a temp. no they fired me. ya i know, i held are guitarist all night after his father died, and he couldn't find a temp for two gigs. any ways here's a very cheap fix. get one of those cheapo headphone amps and run it out of a tuner out on his amp (do guitar amps have those?) and to boost the high side of the eq with a danellectro (ya i know there efing Nazi) or a ex screaming bird. now it's not the most elegant fix but for a total of 30ish some bucks it will work for now.

s_mcsleazy · #12 06-19-2011, 05:29 PM

ive had this problem. get you and your drummer to play really quietly and when he asks why he cant hear you just wisper "what, were playing at a normal volume. maybe your going deff in one ear)

cableguy · #13 06-19-2011, 05:37 PM

I don't know if he plays a combo amp or not. But if he does have his amp next to his floor monitor angled up at his face. Hopefully the FOH is loud enough that it takes care of the house(assuming the sound guy can EQ his tone to the bands liking) and give him a side of the stage. Or have him switch to a guitar POD and IEMs. He can mix his own sound through a small mixer. The rest of the band like normal.

TimmyP · #14 06-19-2011, 11:10 PM

Closed back cabinet in front of him pointed at his head, so he gets all the screaming highs. This will ease the problem, and further his hearing damage.

Closed back cabinet facing the wall, him on IEMs or open-air phones, with an EQ on the chain with the highs cranked. This will make the problem a lot better, and might help avoid further loss if he'll keep the IEM level down. (Also gets rid of his wedge.)

AxeTrak cabinet, him on IEMs as above. This will solve the problem, and might help avoid further loss if he'll keep the IEM level down. Also eliminates the wedge.

enricogaletta · #15 06-20-2011, 02:29 AM

Have you tried to use his amp in front of the wall on your back, instead to use it in the regular way in front to the PA? And if he use to mic it let come out just from his monitor.
This solution can be really good when guitar player need of more volume to come out with a good sound.
Cheers. Enrico
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Never_grew_up · #16 06-26-2011, 06:58 PM

Tough spot to be in ".. but we're weekend warriors with day jobs. We do it for fun mostly and maybe a litte extra spending money." But how much fun is it, playing on such a loud stage (risking your own hearing), knowing that your sound to the audience is suffering? How much longer will you get gigs if you can't deliver a good mix to the audience? It's no different than playing with a drummer that can only play at full force.
This is the least expensive wireless system I'd consider:
GALAXY AUDIO | Galaxy Audio AS-900 Wireless Personal Monitor System | Pro Sound, Lighting and DJ Equipment | Production Services
With a 5 pc band you're only kicking in $20 each.