Mackie DL1608 in the house!

[Wadge]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

I don't understand when they say the presonus has a steep learning curve. What's so steep about it? I played with one for 15 minutes and had a basic mix put together...

Same here. It is pretty simple to use. In fact, with the IPad app, it is no different to the Mackie. One big difference between the two is that you can use the presonus with or without the Ipad - that might or might not be a variable 6 or more years down the line if Ipads change and the mixer no longer supports the new models. I'm sure that there will be adaptors and firmware updates down the line to adjust for this, but I like knowing that at least with the presonus, if the Ipad thing fails, I will still be able to use the mixer on its own.

Then again, $300 is a good chunk of change to save between the Mackie and the bottom of the line Presonus.

[Wadge]

One more thing - it is unfair to compare the learning curve of the presonus to an analogue board because the presonus has features analogue boards simply don't have inbuilt.

Most analogue boards have a 3 maybe four controls for the EQ. With the presonus you have frequency selection and gain controls for 4 bands of EQ and the larger boards have high or low Q controls for these different bands.

Moreover, without external units, I don't know of many analogue boards that have a high pass filter, Gate and compressor. These will obviously take some figuring out.

A fair comparison is a digital board to another digital board.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by Wadge

Same here. It is pretty simple to use. In fact, with the IPad app, it is no different to the Mackie. One big difference between the two is that you can use the presonus with or without the Ipad - that might or might not be a variable 6 or more years down the line if Ipads change and the mixer no longer supports the new models. I'm sure that there will be adaptors and firmware updates down the line to adjust for this, but I like knowing that at least with the presonus, if the Ipad thing fails, I will still be able to use the mixer on its own.

Then again, $300 is a good chunk of change to save between the Mackie and the bottom of the line Presonus.

Until you add in the cost of an I-pad if you don't already own one.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Wadge

Then again, $300 is a good chunk of change to save between the Mackie and the bottom of the line Presonus.

Both priced the same when I last checked ---- presonus did a $300 price drop last I saw

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by Wadge

One more thing - it is unfair to compare the learning curve of the presonus to an analogue board because the presonus has features analogue boards simply don't have inbuilt.



.

Analog (including racks) setups are commonly single function buttons and knobs --- this is a fair comparison as intuitively this is how folks perceive things

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Capture is ridiculously simple. On the computer, arm the channels you want to record and push record.

I figured as much.

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

A few notes back you'd questioned why the Presonus has a "steeper" learning curve.
Many of us are comparing to an analog setup.... the Mackie seems to be programmed so my wife could figure it out... in a pinch she can run an analog... not a presonus... never a roland.

Really? Most laymen I know of can't just figure out an analog board in a few minutes or whatever, most people need training on an analog board just like on digital. The sheer number of knobs can be a lot to take in on a medium or large analog console.
There's only three things I've found that are more difficult to figure out on digital than analog:

1. Layers. Even I, having only really used digital boards (I have mixed one show with an analog board), struggle with navigating faders while trying to mix a live show. I like all of my inputs to be on the same layer. I don't mind having things like my stereo returns and AUX/Matrix outs on different layers though.

2. Not having knobs for each channel. On lots of digital boards they have only one knob for each parameter. You have to select a channel first before you can access its gain, pan, and EQ controls. This isn't really that big of an issue in practice, but it can be odd for people to get used to if they've used analog for a long time.

3. Digital patchbay. If you're using a board with a remote digital snake like Roland, Yamaha CL, or A&H iLive, you can pretty much change any channel to any input you want without moving any cables. But with any other mixer, to change how something is patched, you move the cable from one input to another.

You can't really compare things like scene storing and recall and channel preferences to analog boards because analog boards don't have those features.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

I figured as much.

Really? Most laymen I know of can't just figure out an analog board in a few minutes or whatever, most people need training on an analog board just like on digital. The sheer number of knobs can be a lot to take in on a medium or large analog console.
There's only three things I've found that are more difficult to figure out on digital than analog:

1. Layers. Even I, having only really used digital boards (I have mixed one show with an analog board), struggle with navigating faders while trying to mix a live show. I like all of my inputs to be on the same layer. I don't mind having things like my stereo returns and AUX/Matrix outs on different layers though.

2. Not having knobs for each channel. On lots of digital boards they have only one knob for each parameter. You have to select a channel first before you can access its gain, pan, and EQ controls. This isn't really that big of an issue in practice, but it can be odd for people to get used to if they've used analog for a long time.

3. Digital patchbay. If you're using a board with a remote digital snake like Roland, Yamaha CL, or A&H iLive, you can pretty much change any channel to any input you want without moving any cables. But with any other mixer, to change how something is patched, you move the cable from one input to another.

You can't really compare things like scene storing and recall and channel preferences to analog boards because analog boards don't have those features.

Were saying the same thing

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by Wadge

with the IPad app, it is no different to the Mackie. One big difference between the two is that you can use the presonus with or without the Ipad...

Another difference is you can't use the presonus with an ipad unless you have a computer hooked to it.

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Both priced the same when I last checked ---- presonus did a $300 price drop last I saw

I'm not seeing that. MF has them down to 1199. Google shopping shows one store at 1099, but it's a new store with no review.


It's certainly fair to compare the 16.0.2 with the 1608 but aside from both being 16 channel digital mixers with an ipad interface they're kind of different animals.

Presonus

• 15.5x16x5
• 20lbs
• run without ipad
• needs computer for ipad
• multitrack record to computer
• 4 aux mixes
• 31 band graphic eq on main mix only
• 12 xlr inputs

Mackie

• 15.5x11.5x4
• 8lbs
• needs ipad
• doesn't need computer for wireless ipad mixing
• 2 track main mix record to ipad
• 6 aux mixes
• 31 band graphic eq on all mixes
• 12 xlr inputs

I'm sure there are other differences.

It's nice that the mackie is cheaper but I wouldn't decide on $300. If I wanted to record my band live and mix it down later I would go with the presonus. Nobody wants live recordings of my bands. If you want faders go presonus.

I already have an ipad so that wasn't a factor. I have a macbook I could take so that wasn't factor either but I really don't want to deal with it on every gig.

The big deal to me is the 8lbs and it will fit in a laptop bag along with wireless mixing with no computer.

Both really cool products.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by nutdog

Another difference is you can't use the presonus with an ipad unless you have a computer hooked to it.



I'm not seeing that. MF has them down to 1199. Google shopping shows one store at 1099, but it's a new store with no review.


It's certainly fair to compare the 16.0.2 with the 1608 but aside from both being 16 channel digital mixers with an ipad interface they're kind of different animals.

Presonus

• 15.5x16x5
• 20lbs
• run without ipad
• needs computer for ipad
• multitrack record to computer
• 4 aux mixes

Mackie

• 15.5x11.5x4
• 8lbs
• needs ipad
• doesn't need computer for wireless ipad mixing
• 2 track main mix record to ipad
• 6 aux mixes

I'm sure there are other differences.

It's nice that the mackie is cheaper but I wouldn't decide on $300. If I wanted to record my band live and mix it down later I would go with the presonus. Nobody wants live recordings of my bands. If you want faders go presonus.

I already have an ipad so that wasn't a factor. I have a macbook I could take so that wasn't factor either but I really don't want to deal with it on every gig.

The big deal to me is the 8lbs and it will fit in a laptop bag along with wireless mixing with no computer.

Both really cool products.

Agreed. There are lots of reasons to choose one over the other, but price isn't really one of them.

[MNAirHead]

Originally Posted by nutdog

I'm not seeing that. MF has them down to 1199. Google shopping shows one store at 1099, but it's a new store with no review.



.

I can walk I to our local stores without a coupon and buy either for 999

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

I can walk I to our local stores without a coupon and buy either for 999

I'm jealous. I can't walk and see anything but Behringer, Fender and Peavey. And that would be 4 mile round trip.

[troy mcclure]

I think the 1642 is more like $ 1799. Where are they $999.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by troy mcclure

I think the 1642 is more like $ 1799. Where are they $999.

They are talking about the Presonus 16.0.2. Which in my world is actually a 12 channel mixer since it only has 12 mic inputs.

[musicman7722]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Agreed. There are lots of reasons to choose one over the other, but price isn't really one of them.

Great snapshot comparison of the 1608 and the 16.0.2.

I would add 31 band grapic on every out as well.

I think it is safe to say that dollar wise the Presonus is $100 cheaper when I bought it as you needed an ipad for the 1608. I lucked out that the 08 was on sale for $850 and I had the ipad as I had purchased it and a macbook pro to go wireless with the presonus. I gave that up after 2 gigs as it was just to much extra work to do along with set up my rig ha.

Chris

[MNAirHead]

Chris..... Say you can get a used ipad for $175.... Small router for 25

Cheapest used FireWire computer would be around 500

For gigging which would you pick

[musicman7722]

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Chris..... Say you can get ka used ipad for $175.... Small router for 25

Cheapest used FireWire computer would be around 500

For gigging which would you pick

I would go with mackie

[musicman7722]

I also agree the presonus is 12 channel. I hate these companies that count a stereo channel as two channels. The mackie is 16 real channels. I was barely able to fit into the Presonus channel wise but the macki is just right

[troy mcclure]

I mixed my friends band this weekend on the presonus 1642. Took me about 5 mins to get use to how they set up the eqs and compressions on each channel...but it is pretty intuitive. That being said , I want to try the mackie, as I am looking for a smaller solution than the Presonus.... I currently have a Yamaha 01r and that is huge and needs to be replaced as it only has 8 mic ins.

[nutdog]

Originally Posted by modulusman

They are talking about the Presonus 16.0.2. Which in my world is actually a 12 channel mixer since it only has 12 mic inputs.

Originally Posted by musicman7722

I would add 31 band grapic on every out as well.

Excellent points. I edited my comparison to reflect these differences. Both were factors in my decision. Being able to eq the monitor mixes is important to me but might not matter to in ear people.

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Chris..... Say you can get a used ipad for $175.... Small router for 25

Cheapest used FireWire computer would be around 500

For gigging which would you pick

You didn't ask me but why should that matter? We have a 24.4.2 installed at church. IMO the presonus is the way to go for permanent installations. For grab and go gigging the mackie seems best (on paper) unless you want to multitrack record live shows or plan on using it to record elsewhere.

Of course this will ultimately depend on how well the mackie performs. Mine's supposed to show up today.

[two fingers]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Yeah, you can synch a number of iPads wirelessly so that everyone can control their own mix. It's really awesome.

Works with iPhones too. Awesome setup.