Mic cabs

kawika5150 · #1 08-09-2011, 03:58 PM

How many of you mic your cabs instead of a direct out? How does it work for you?

Lo-E · #2 08-09-2011, 04:13 PM

I always mic the cab if given the option. It's the only way I have of knowing what sort of sound I'm sending to the house - and my only chance of having any control over it.

kawika5150 · #3 08-09-2011, 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lo-E

I always mic the cab if given the option. It's the only way I have of knowing what sort of sound I'm sending to the house - and my only chance of having any control over it.

Thought about that too in terms of control over your own sound.

Barisaxman · #4 08-09-2011, 06:13 PM

Something to consider...microphones are FAR from transparent, and a good FOH guy still has plenty of tools to alter your sound. The difference in the long run is overblown....

Do what you're comfortable with...but keep in mind that sticking a 57 in front of bass cab is not going to magically put "your sound" at FOH. Prepare to invest some serious money to get a mic that doesn't impact your tone in one way or another.

JimmyM · #5 08-09-2011, 07:20 PM

I always mic and refuse a DI when possible. It's not always possible since I fly a lot and use rented amps, but when I can, I want a mic. People on here like to say, "You know you're not really getting your amp sound in the house when you mic..." I always say, "I am if the soundman is competent."

erock138 · #6 08-09-2011, 07:26 PM

I do both, mic with a shure beta 52a.

Oreomeister365 · #7 08-09-2011, 08:17 PM

I certainly prefer the mic. Spend some time with one (or a few) to understand just what you will sound like through one before assuming it'll sound like this or that, though. Things are different an inch away from a speaker.

kawika5150 · #8 08-09-2011, 11:46 PM

Thanks all. Good reading in here.

bertbass666 · #9 08-10-2011, 06:10 AM

I'd of thought that using the amp D.I. out, if it's got one, post EQ setting would give more of your sound than a mic.

Wes Whitmore · #10 08-10-2011, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bertbass666

I'd of thought that using the amp D.I. out, if it's got one, post EQ setting would give more of your sound than a mic.

Using post EQ will give you the colored sound of the head, but not the head and cab together like a mic will. Since cabs sound very different from one another, a mic is about the only way to get that sound in the PA like you hear it out of the cab. Of course, the question of "is that sound usable in the mix" is always a tough one.

I tried micing my Ampeg SVT210AV with a Beta58 that I had already...it didn't work out well. We went back to the built in DI of my MB500 and the soundguy was very happy again. I know for a fact that my signal is getting squashed with a 4:1 compressor and a little channel strip EQ, but that's about it. I don't get the growl in the main pa that I do in my cabs though because that sound comes from my cab, not the head. I kinda miss that. I didn't know which $300 mic to buy to really get a "one mic no DI" solution, so I just went back to DI for now. This led to me not even bringing the cab on gigs. I'm sure I'll go back when I get it figured out.

Wes

prd004 · #11 08-10-2011, 08:23 AM

Weather you use a mic, or a DI, or both, your sound and your space within the mix is always in the hands of the sound engineer.

The belief that dropping a mic in front of your cab will suddenly project the same tone as your amp through the FOH is wishful thinking. True you may impart MORE of your tone into the signal being sent to the board, but the soundman will have the final say in EQ, compression, and presence in the mix.

I also chuckle when I hear these guys that have to mic their 8x10 cabs because nothing sounds like that rig. True, but the soundman is only micing one speaker, you may as well be using a 2x10 or even a 1x10.

I'm a bass player of 27 years (today!) and a sound engineer of eleven years. When I am playing I accept the fact that the house sound is not in my hands and I just concentrate on playing, I try not to even worry about the house sound. When I am running the board, rest assured the bass player gets much love!

fokof · #12 08-10-2011, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prd004

When I am playing I accept the fact that the house sound is not in my hands and I just concentrate on playing, I try not to even worry about the house sound.

+1

What he says

testing1two · #13 08-10-2011, 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erock138

I do both, mic with a shure beta 52a.

I'm not saying you can't achieve good results like this, but if I wanted to send an "accurate" representation of my amp tone to FOH I would never use a kick drum mic.

Have a look at the heavily voiced frequency response patterns of the industry standard kick mics:

Shure Beta 52: http://www.shure.com/idc/groups/publ...csheet.pdf.pdf

AKG D112: http://www.akg.com/picture.php?txt=F...5c3c412c1e.jpg

Audix D6: http://www.audixusa.com/docs/specs_pdf/D6.pdf

I would be more inclined to use mics like the Beyer M88 or the Heil PR30 or PR40. But in my experience these mics need a suspension mount because they are sensitive to stage vibration and rumble as well as bleed from other instruments on stage.

From an engineer's standpoint, the real advantages of a DI are clean, solid low end with increased headroom and freedom from mic influences/limitations like frequency response, feedback, bleed from other instruments, etc. From this perspective a DI is always faster and more predictable (i.e. easier) to mix in a live setting and in the hands of a capable engineer the results can be excellent. But as many threads here have demonstrated, easier is not always better.

Cheers.

JimmyM · #14 08-10-2011, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prd004

Weather you use a mic, or a DI, or both, your sound and your space within the mix is always in the hands of the sound engineer.

The belief that dropping a mic in front of your cab will suddenly project the same tone as your amp through the FOH is wishful thinking. True you may impart MORE of your tone into the signal being sent to the board, but the soundman will have the final say in EQ, compression, and presence in the mix.

See my above quote...if the soundman knows what he's doing, he can make your sound in the PA so much like your mic'ed cab that you won't know where one ends and the other begins. Happens all the time with me.

Quote:

I also chuckle when I hear these guys that have to mic their 8x10 cabs because nothing sounds like that rig. True, but the soundman is only micing one speaker, you may as well be using a 2x10 or even a 1x10.

While this is true (my usage of a 210AV bears this out), if I use an 810, it's up there for ME.

Quote:

I'm a bass player of 27 years (today!) and a sound engineer of eleven years. When I am playing I accept the fact that the house sound is not in my hands and I just concentrate on playing, I try not to even worry about the house sound. When I am running the board, rest assured the bass player gets much love!

That would be fine if I hadn't had so many soundmen try to make me sound like Marcus Miller in the PA despite not having a sound anywhere near that coming out of my amp. Marcus is fantastic...but I don't want his sound. It doesn't work for my bands. If all soundmen were competent, that'd be a different story. But I micromanage soundmen sometimes and insist on a mic because I have to.

JimmyM · #15 08-10-2011, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by testing1two

I would be more inclined to use mics like the Beyer M88 or the Heil PR30 or PR40. But in my experience these mics need a suspension mount because they are sensitive to stage vibration and rumble as well as bleed from other instruments on stage.

I'ev used both an M88 and have owned a PR40 for about 3 years, and never used any of them with a suspension mount, and never had a problem.

Quote:

From an engineer's standpoint, the real advantages of a DI are clean, solid low end with increased headroom and freedom from mic influences/limitations like frequency response, feedback, bleed from other instruments, etc.

Bleed and feedback are overrated with micing bass cabs. There are a lot more mics on my stages that are way more worrisome than the bass cab mic. I always find it hilarious when a soundman tells me he doesn't want me to have a mic because he's worried about bleed and feedback...with 6 vocal mics, two or three horn mics, anywahere from 2 to 6 drum mics, and a guitar cab mic.

Quote:

From this perspective a DI is always faster and more predictable (i.e. easier) to mix in a live setting and in the hands of a capable engineer the results can be excellent. But as many threads here have demonstrated, easier is not always better.

I disagree with that. Is it faster to set up a DI? Maybe slightly. But it's no harder to get a sound with a mic than a DI.