Mic or DI?

reens · #1 06-01-2008, 01:51 AM

After a pretty crap-sounding gig recently (big PA support, heaps of foldback potential, but ultimately craptacular mix both onstage and FOH), I got to thinking about the pros and cons of DI. The sound guy did a whole lot of EQing at the desk, negating the sound I had dialled up onstage with Sansamp and my rig (he took feed from the DI). I had to get him to take off the mega treble from the mix. The usual engineer woes, sure you're all familiar with being at the mercy of a stranger's sense of good sound.

So then, my amp is the onstage support, very little came back via the foldback (let alone the rest of the band, later corrected somewhat), and when I wandered to FOH, it didn't sound anything like my sound any more (warwick-based).

At this same venue recently, with a diff. engineer of course, the band's bass was mic'd, and I swear I could enjoy 100% of the dude's Longhorn's unique tone. Dunno if he also ran a DI out to reinforce it... And of course engineers are each unique...

But, long way to a question: do you insist on a mic on your amp or are you happy to let them take a DI feed and sort out the FOH sound? Or a combo of both?

A good DI can give much better (bottom) clarity, of course, and it's so much easier to run. But I'm starting to lean to a mic'd sound. Any preference or experience... do you insist on something, or even bring yr own mic to the show... or...

Maybe I'm just getting sick of telling engineers to keep it as clean as I send it... but to my mind there's nothing better than a fantastic mix at a live show, and yet it's so dependent on the random vagaries of an engineer's ears... maybe a mic can take some of that back.

reens

Mutant Corn · #2 06-01-2008, 02:11 AM

If It's not a terribly large venue, I prefer to just let my amp do the talking and stay out of the PA as much as possible.

Mic, though, if the PA is necessary. I like the way my cab sounds. Of course my mic has a really low freq. response...other mics might lose some bottom. I might go DI once I get my Carvin head...it's got a nice DI built in.

JimmyM · #3 06-01-2008, 03:24 AM

I've totally dropped my DI in favor of a mic for that exact same reason.

Oreomeister365 · #4 06-01-2008, 04:37 PM

I plan on getting a mic real soon to bring to every gig so all the money I spend getting the perfect tone doesn't go to waste because of a soundman who wants everything to sound like a P.

TL5 · #5 06-01-2008, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reens

The sound guy did a whole lot of EQing at the desk, negating the sound I had dialled up onstage..

But, long way to a question: do you insist on a mic on your amp or are you happy to let them take a DI feed
..yet it's so dependent on the random vagaries of an engineer's ears..
reens

It doesn't matter.
If the engineer is the type who insists on re-EQ'ing to the point of making it unrecognizable, they can do that with either the DI OR a mic feed.

ryco · #6 06-01-2008, 05:00 PM

If there's enough lines have the soundman run DI and mic. Good engineers will blend the two.
If you have to choose, go mic - mics get the punch.

Yeah, you're at the mercy of the soundguy, unfortunately. Bribe him with pizza.

tomvelsor · #7 06-01-2008, 05:05 PM

IF i was using a dirtier sounding rig, SVT or the like, then i'd probobly want the sound of the amp. but i want the sound of my bass..so i'm always a DI man. (ive even done gigs without anything on the stage, just into the PA...sometimes its not so bad.)

mics really just dont do it for me. its also better for a live recording, gets no spill from drums or guitars..

reens · #8 06-01-2008, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

I've totally dropped my DI in favor of a mic for that exact same reason.

right -- anyone have any preferred bass-friendly mics?

I figure with a mic, an engineer is more or less forced to get the best sound at the mixing end...

projectMalamute · #9 06-01-2008, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reens

right -- anyone have any preferred bass-friendly mics?

I figure with a mic, an engineer is more or less forced to get the best sound at the mixing end...

EV RE20, Beyer M88, Senn 421. I like all of those on a bass amp.
Some people like some of the kick drum mics: AKG D112, Audix (D5?).

JimmyM has been singing the praises of one of the Heil dynamics lately, maybe the PR40? I've heard mixed stuff about the reliability of those things.

I've had an Audio Technica AT4033 parked in front of my amp at home for quite a while lately, I like it quite a bit.

I'll even take a 57 over a DI on a gig, in most rooms that lack of low frequency extension can actually help.

JimmyM · #10 06-01-2008, 09:31 PM

Ya, the Heil PR 40 has a tremendous low end range and a pretty flat response. But really, I've heard a ton of different mics and they all sound good in their own way. I just don't like kick mics, though. Too scooped for me.

I got to use a Beyer M88 for the first time tonight. Gig in CT with a rented SVT-CL and 410HLF. Really good. I enjoyed it quite well. But the PR 40 is $325 and the Beyer is $450

**baba** · #11 06-02-2008, 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TL5

It doesn't matter.
If the engineer is the type who insists on re-EQ'ing to the point of making it unrecognizable, they can do that with either the DI OR a mic feed.

Exactly.

Deacon_Blues · #12 06-03-2008, 05:15 AM

I prefer using the pre-eq DI out on the amp. The simple reason for that is that the soundman can change the FOH sound as he want and I can change the stage sound as I want (well within reasonable limits of course...)

However, on smallish gigs I prefer not feeding any signal to the PA. The amp is powerful enough and I have enough speakers to move the air with for those gigs. There's countless of times I've been mixing a band when the bass rig on stage has as such been enough so no extra PA support have been necessary...

BetterBottomEnd · #13 06-03-2008, 05:31 AM

At a large venue how you sound out front is totally at the mercy of the soundman regardless of what you send him.

neuromancer · #14 06-03-2008, 07:38 AM

Both - if I can convince the sound person to do so, and that's rare. I'm aware of the benefits of a DI, although it rarely captures the sound of my rig accurately. The audience may not care one bit, although I do.

I completely agree with the notion that "to my mind there's nothing better than a fantastic mix at a live show." Mixing the 2 together usually helps on the bass end, although of course you are at the mercy of whoever's doing the mixing.

CapnSev · #15 06-03-2008, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BetterBottomEnd

At a large venue how you sound out front is totally at the mercy of the soundman regardless of what you send him.

Yup. My opinon (and personal taste) is to find a really transparent amp for my SR5. I can give the soundman pre-EQ, but he can't take that Musicman sound away. Here's Stingray in your face chump!

sasebastian · #16 06-04-2008, 11:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reens

But, long way to a question: do you insist on a mic on your amp or are you happy to let them take a DI feed and sort out the FOH sound? Or a combo of both?

I prefer to have both, but for the DI I make it so that the DI in my rack is used, or if I am using a smaller setup, I never plug the bass into the DI. Either way, the DI goes last in the effect chain to the amp so that the sound going into the amp is also the sound going to the board.

All_¥our_Bass · #17 06-05-2008, 12:48 AM

I like mics.

deaf pea · #18 06-05-2008, 01:33 AM

If I have to choose "mic or DI", I ALWAYS go "mic" . . . I PREFER a mic on each amp with a little DI (not very much, really) mixed in . . . If there's a choice of mics, I prefer the EV RE-20 (PL-20), but if there isn't anything more "esoteric" available, a SM-58 (or 57) works fine.

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

EV RE20, Beyer M88, Senn 421. I like all of those on a bass amp...I'll even take a 57 over a DI on a gig, in most rooms that lack of low frequency extension can actually help.

yep!

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

...I just don't like kick mics, though. Too scooped for me...

also true for ME!

reens · #19 06-05-2008, 05:46 AM

thanks all, great replies. I'm going all the way to MicLand right now.

51m0n · #20 06-05-2008, 05:58 AM

Kick mics are often a bad idea, since the soundguy will usuallu use the same kick mic in the kick, making it harder to frequency mix (eq) the too apart. Result, bass is lost in the mix since all soundguys love a kick that will rupture the spleen of every human within a 2 mile radius.

An audix D4 looks like a really decent cheaper solution, its for bass instruments, but not necessarily kick. Having said that I havent heard one yet