Mic or DI? - Page 2

JTE · #21 06-05-2008, 10:30 AM

A mic does NOT get "your sound" unless your sound is the way your rig sounds from a few inches away from one of the speakers. My cabinets are ported, and all have multiple drivers and tweeters. Heck, the EA cabs have three different kinds of drivers. The sound I hear from my cabinets (and I submit that anyone playing through ported cabs) is the sum total sound of the whole thing. That includes the different drivers interacting, the ports, etc. What I hear standing a few feet away from my cabinets is not at all what any good mic is going to hear when we aim it at one of the 10" speakers in my D410XLT. Plus, whether you mic it or go DI pre-EQ, or DI post-EQ, or DI right off the PUPs, you're still "at the mercy" of the sound ops.

Whatever works, works. But be sure you know exaclty what you're doing rather than making gross assumptions about how it will sound.

My last band had a great PA, and that rare breed of sound ops who actually has ears, understands music, etc. I went DI right off my effects using a SansAmp BDDI. I used the BDDI as another voice so I'd switch the EQ/gain stuff in and out. But my recorded sound straight from the board was exactly what I wanted, and when others played my stuff on occasion I really liked how it sat in the mix. And I got lots of compliments on my sound.

jte

OrangeSun · #22 06-10-2008, 06:38 AM

As a sound guy and a bassplayer, I'd say probably 85% of people can get the sound that they want with a D.I., but theres nothing you can really do about the taste of a sound guy. Personally, I only EQ things to correct a problem, such as a buzz in the high end or a serious lack of low end. In the end, it depends ultimately on a combination of things including what your speakers sound like and what style you play. I would much rather use a D.I then a 57, but that opinion is mostly informed by the fact that most of the bassplayers I have worked with have a better quality bass vs the quality of their bass cab/amp. For my own live sound, I run the D.I right off my WT800B. I suppose if for any reason I was unable to use it, I would probably ask for a mic only because my warwick has passive pups and the signal from it is a bit weak.

Mark Reccord · #23 06-10-2008, 07:43 AM

The answer is "it depends on the application." As an engineer, I usually prefer a combination of both, but it really depends. If you're going for that super clean tone then maybe all you need to get your sound across is a nice DI. If you're running all kinds of effects or with a highly coloured rig (i.e. SVT

) then you probably need a mic signal. There is something about the interaction between a speaker and a mic that you just can't get with a DI, especially when effects are involved. Direct lines, post FX tend to sound terrible.

Though the popular notion is that you're at the "mercy" of the sound people, the person ultimately responsible for your FOH sound is you. There is a limit to how much your tone can be manipulated by the sound person. With respect to sound reinforcement, the old adage of SISO is true. What you get out of the PA is only as good as what goes in, so make sure that you have your tonal ducks in a row before bitching about the sound people. Seriously, I've seen so many instances where musicians have really awful tone and then expect the sound engineer to somehow fix it so that it sounds deluxe out front. There's really only so much you can do.

Anyway, the long and short of it is to try to work with the sound people to find the best way to get your sound across and I hope all of you get to experience working with competent, congenial sound engineers. I know that many of you have had really bad experiences, please don't let it totally sour you, there are some very talented people standing behind mixing consoles out there.

JPaulGeddy · #24 06-11-2008, 12:13 PM

I let the soundguy do what he wants if it's his PA and house. I just give him the best signal I can via DI, or he can mic the cab with the mic of his choosing. If you're in a situation with FOH sound, it's completely in their hands, period.

Most of my 'sound' comes from my fingers and on-board pre-amp anyway, everything down the signal chain from there is irrelevant to me.

WalterBush · #25 06-11-2008, 12:32 PM

I like the repeatability and lack of hassle inherent in my DI. I run a preamp, pedal board, and whatever amp into an 810. No matter what else happens on stage, the signal I sent to FOH is the same as the night before, which was the same as the weekend before, etc. I just reassure soundmen that I have a compressor in front of the DI to minimize volume changes from EQ or effects, and go.

No amount of microphones, beer, pizza, or yelling will fix a deaf, incompetent, or overly opinionated soundman. Using a DI over a mike means one less hassle I have to deal with between getting off work and showing up for my gig.

spook396 · #26 06-12-2008, 12:06 PM

BOTH EVERY TIME!!!

Take some time to learn something about sound engineering then you can talk to the engineer on his terms.
If you can get someone else to soundcheck your bass and go into the room, so much the better.

JimmyM · #27 06-12-2008, 11:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JTE

A mic does NOT get "your sound" unless your sound is the way your rig sounds from a few inches away from one of the speakers. My cabinets are ported, and all have multiple drivers and tweeters. Heck, the EA cabs have three different kinds of drivers. The sound I hear from my cabinets (and I submit that anyone playing through ported cabs) is the sum total sound of the whole thing. That includes the different drivers interacting, the ports, etc. What I hear standing a few feet away from my cabinets is not at all what any good mic is going to hear when we aim it at one of the 10" speakers in my D410XLT. Plus, whether you mic it or go DI pre-EQ, or DI post-EQ, or DI right off the PUPs, you're still "at the mercy" of the sound ops.

Whatever works, works. But be sure you know exaclty what you're doing rather than making gross assumptions about how it will sound.

My last band had a great PA, and that rare breed of sound ops who actually has ears, understands music, etc. I went DI right off my effects using a SansAmp BDDI. I used the BDDI as another voice so I'd switch the EQ/gain stuff in and out. But my recorded sound straight from the board was exactly what I wanted, and when others played my stuff on occasion I really liked how it sat in the mix. And I got lots of compliments on my sound.

jte

That's great. Your system works for you. Don't presume that our system doesn't work for us just because you don't like it.

Juniorkimbrough · #28 06-13-2008, 08:28 AM

I just bought an Audix D4, actually just got it in yesterday, and used at my gig last night. Ran the Audix and a DI to the board.......sounded great! I was also able to get a good bass mix in my monitor....sounded just like my amp. The DI into my monitor has never really worked well since I send a clean signal to the board from my DI.

I'm extremely happy with my purchase so far! I just kindly asked the soundguy if he minded me running a DI and mic, wasn't a big deal at all.

Oreomeister365 · #29 06-13-2008, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

That's great. Your system works for you. Don't presume that our system doesn't work for us just because you don't like it.

Um, no offense to you, but it's common knowledge that on a forum everyone is voicing their opinions, you don't need to come out and point that out. He wasn't being very aggressive about his view of things either. Did you really need to make that reply?

JimmyM · #30 06-13-2008, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Oreomeister365

Um, no offense to you, but it's common knowledge that on a forum everyone is voicing their opinions, you don't need to come out and point that out. He wasn't being very aggressive about his view of things either. Did you really need to make that reply?

Actually, I did. His first sentence was to tell us that we don't get "our sound" when we put a mic in front of a cab. Maybe he doesn't get "HIS sound," but I definitely get "MY sound" with a mic in front of a cab. Maybe he's not intense about it as a lot of the busybodies on here who REALLY cheese me off with mispronouncements and faulty info about sounds they don't like, but all the same, if someone thinks they're getting their sound to the PA and it works for them, there's no reason anyone should say it doesn't.

Oreomeister365 · #31 06-13-2008, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Actually, I did. His first sentence was to tell us that we don't get "our sound" when we put a mic in front of a cab. Maybe he doesn't get "HIS sound," but I definitely get "MY sound" with a mic in front of a cab. Maybe he's not intense about it as a lot of the busybodies on here who REALLY cheese me off with mispronouncements and faulty info about sounds they don't like, but all the same, if someone thinks they're getting their sound to the PA and it works for them, there's no reason anyone should say it doesn't.

Perhaps you should re-read his first line.

You still need to understand that it is all his opinion. You don't need to make a reply and assume people don't know that. Perhaps you need to relax if you're getting so cheesed off by someones reply on a forum. Realize it's an opinion and move on, it is not nearly as big a deal as you make it out to be. There are far harsher places on the internet, rarely on talkbass do people seem to have the intention to force their word upon you. He was saying what he thinks, not forcing it down your throat.

JimmyM · #32 06-13-2008, 09:05 PM

I think you're getting more hostile than I ever did.

Oreomeister365 · #33 06-13-2008, 09:13 PM

Sorry if it seems that way, I'm blowing it out of proportion.

JimmyM · #34 06-13-2008, 09:20 PM

Happens to us all. I probably did, too.

georgestrings · #35 06-13-2008, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deacon_Blues

I prefer using the pre-eq DI out on the amp. The simple reason for that is that the soundman can change the FOH sound as he want and I can change the stage sound as I want (well within reasonable limits of course...)

However, on smallish gigs I prefer not feeding any signal to the PA. The amp is powerful enough and I have enough speakers to move the air with for those gigs. There's countless of times I've been mixing a band when the bass rig on stage has as such been enough so no extra PA support have been necessary...

Agreed with all of the above - except I'll add that even in smallish places, I still run and soundcheck a pre-EQ DI feed to the board, whether I plan to use it or not - the reason for that is that if I have an amp problem, it's only a matter of bringing up that DI signal to the board, and we're right back in business...

I mainly prefer a pre-EQ DI because that way I can make ANY changes(EQ or volume) I want for the stage mix - without effecting the FOH mix at all... I make sure all of my gigging basses sound great on their own, and don't use any effects - so while that approach works quite well for me, it might not work so well for those who use effects, or who's basses don't sound that great through a pre-EQ DI feed...

- georgestrings