Mic'ing bass amp for live shows?

[BigMac5]

I've tried the Mic + DI approach and never really liked it. The two sources will be out of phase and it had an effect on the sound. I always ended up running just the mic or DI and it sounded better to me.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by BigMac5

I've tried the Mic + DI approach and never really liked it. The two sources will be out of phase and it had an effect on the sound. I always ended up running just the mic or DI and it sounded better to me.

+1

A soundman taking both and who doesn't have the tools ( or the knowledge) is usually looking for more trouble than only one source.

[NewLaw83]

As a sound engineer myself, I like to do both "direct out" out the amp/D.I. and Mic. I also prefer to use the amp "direct out" instead of a D.I. if I am not using a Mic if possible. A D.I. going pre amp into the PA sounds like crap to me by itself.

Now when it comes down to Micing...

Multiple cabinets(meaning 2x10 and a 15) I will Mic the 10. I get better mids to help me get the tone out of the amp to be reproduced through the PA. For the most part I only use one Mic unless the bass player is using a separate cab for effects like distortion and clean cab to keep lows from disappearing. The best mics to use are ones with fairly flat frequency response. But I have used mics like the 57 and d4 with success just have to do some eqing. The 421 is also a great Mic to use with a direct out.

Also yes it is good to use crossover for separating frequencies between the mics and D.I. because of phasing issues.

One last thing a sound engineer cannot turn s**t into gold. You can shine a turd but it still a turd. It makes life so much easier when the band actually knows how to play their instruments and run their equipment properly. I try to do my best "reinforce" what the band sounds like as is with out trying to color their sound. I don't try to make it "my sound" because I'm not in the band.

[flagshipmj]

I use an Audix f6 for kick, anyone have any experience using this for a bass cab mic?

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by flagshipmj

I use an Audix f6 for kick, anyone have any experience using this for a bass cab mic?

i hate kick mics on bass because i don't go for a mid scooped sound.

[Denny Coon]

i questioned this before asking what is the best approach and the answer i was given on here is....mic and direct. the best point of my answer was that some use the wrong technique for this. Rather than try to get a good mic sound and a good direct sound then mix the two, the technique that was described and has been successful for me is do the lows with the mic and the highs and mids with the direct, then blend as to avoid cancelling of frequencies

[rtslinger]

I used to mic the cabinet when I was using an amp now I go direct no amp for most shows unless it is outdoors and I need the horse power. I however do have a small amp on stage that my drummer insisted on having to hear me or should I say feel me so he brings it and I do gig through it but I am ampless in that I bring none to the gig myself. But when used the amp always a mic SM58

[fokof]

Originally Posted by Denny Coon

i.....the technique that was described and has been successful for me is do the lows with the mic and the highs and mids with the direct, then blend as to avoid cancelling of frequencies

Personaly , I would do the exact opposite.

[Bob Lee (QSC)]

Miking bass cabs for sound reinforcement seems to be much less commonplace than it used to be in past decades. DIs are pretty ubiquitous these days, and a lot of heads and pres have DI built right into them. DIs aren't prone to acoustic leakage and feedback as mics are.

Still, if your rig's sound, including the cab, is really what you need to capture, then you mic it. For versatility, you can go with the best of both worlds with both DI and mic, if you have the extra mixer channel available.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by fokof

Personaly , I would do the exact opposite.

yup. some mics, like the shure sm-58, sound great on the highs and mids but don't have anything to speak of below 100hz. so you use the di to supplement the lows and use the mic for everything else. i hate the clangy ball-less straight-di sound nowadays, so i bought a mic that reproduces lows well, but the di/mic thing is a great way to use a less expensive mic and still have low end.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

yup. some mics, like the shure sm-58, sound great on the highs and mids but don't have anything to speak of below 100hz. so you use the di to supplement the lows and use the mic for everything else. i hate the clangy ball-less straight-di sound nowadays, so i bought a mic that reproduces lows well, but the di/mic thing is a great way to use a less expensive mic and still have low end.

Wow we agree on something !!!!!

Seriously , even with a very high quality mike , I prefer the cleaness of the lows of a DI , if I have the choice.
Then get the grit, dirtiness of the amp with the mike on the highs. (80-100hz and up)

[RobbieNuke]

I recently converted over to using a mic instead of a DI. For years I've used various DI's to placate the soundman's request... just to have bad electric/grounds/etc introduce some sort of hum/noise in the system and of course I'm to blame. Also because of the hum I'm out/down in the FOH mix.

This past summer was the final straw! In a club with notoriously bad electric (back-line, PA, & Lights all on same circuit) I attempted a DI hook-up two different ways using two different units (MXR M-80 on my pedal board as a pre; Pro-Co DB-1 between amp/cabinet as a post). The soundman had a fit... too much noise/hum... said mine stuff was crap so he gave me a 70's Imp that rattled due to loose transformer inside... still had the same problem but he just would not concede there was a problem with the venue , must be my amp (Ampeg SVT w/ 810 which was dead quiet BTW). I was barely through FOH so I had no apologies for playing loud that night!

Needless to say I now bring an old Shure SM56 (same as a SM57/545 but with additional shock isolation on the swivel to minimize vibration noise). There may be other mics with a better low freq response, but the SVT/810 isn't about that. I still offer the DI from my pedal board if the soundman wants it, but none have taken it so far! Personally, I've never been to any club/festival gigs where I've been asked for more than one feed to FOH. My mic tone is just fine, and whats one more open mic on stage as far as bleed-over is concerned!

For those with a DI built-in to your amps, if your using them without any noise/hum at all consider yourself lucky! But you may want to start bringing your own mic (a variety of used ones can be had for cheap on ebay) and begin experimenting with them, have some fun!

[AndyLES]

Robbie Nuke - you sure you couldn't have just fixed the hum by hitting the DI's "ground lift" switch? That fixes hum problems 99.999% of the time.

[RobbieNuke]

Please, you really have to ask that question? Really??? But since your in the NY Bassist Club I guess I'll have to explain it to you. The "Hum" that your referring to (60 Hz and 120 Hz harmonic) is induced when two pieces of equipment (amp/PA mixer) on two distant outlets are connected together (via DI Box). They create a "ground loop" that generates the "Hum" and the lift switch "breaks" the loop.

The experiences of AC line noise I refer to in my posting have been with most of the older clubs here in Baltimore. Stage Lighting, PA, dimmers, cash registers, computers, neon, fluorescent, A/C, and all RF sources in a poorly wired structure contributes to the "noise" in the AC line... the kind of noise not effected by Ground Lift switch.

But to answer your question, I did toggle the switch between the two positions... as I suppose anyone who actually owns equipment with a DI switch would do. Really! And if anyone is still experiencing any noise problems use a mic!

Another tip, especially if using a combination of DI and mic... you may run into a phasing problem. I have my own mic cable with a Switchcraft T3F connector that sports a DPDT switch wired to provide phase reversal.