Which Mixer for IEM - Rolls PM351 or Behringer MX882

Rocksolid · #1 05-02-2011, 09:45 PM

Been researching this for a while - looked thru heaps of thread and I am down to these 2. I am am using a BEHRINGER: MA400 currently which is ok. I use it to blend my bass with the FB send. Only 2 channels so cant boost my own vocals.

BEHRINGER: MX882
Pros:
more channels than the PM351 so I can have my vocals, instrument, FB send, FOH send, and ambient on stage mic if I really wanted to
Pan available on all channels and stereo output
Master Output control - good for increasing vol via 1 knob
Splitter on all channels
xlr and 6.5 available

cons
1RU so I can't put it on a 1RU shelf with IEM. I am out of rack space and don't want to go bigger (6RU already) IEM would have to be racked in the back
more expensive

Rolls Corporation - Real Sound - Products PM351 Personal Monitor System

Pros:
designed specifically for this application
smaller so I can get it in my rack along side my IEM
cheaper

cons:
only 3 channels
not all channels have a thru splitter
no pan function

they both will do the job well - just can't make a decision! I figure there must be a few that might have used both, and heaps that have used 1 of these products and might be able say something that tips me 1 way.

I am using an Ashtom IEM200 for my inears with M audio IE-40's. Low price point IEM's - awesome buds and I have had moulds made for them. The IEM sounds far better in mono for some reason so I am running them that way, but if I upgrade to shure or Sennheisser IEM's at some stage I will look at running stereo.

Here is my rack setup in case that helps:

I look forward to your input!

MNAirHead · #2 05-03-2011, 02:33 AM

Easy.. hands down.

PM351

Rocksolid · #3 05-03-2011, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Easy.. hands down.

PM351

Ha! I knew you would chime in and I knew what your vote would be!!!

Just on side note (I don't want to derail my own thread)...I was reading some of your posts about ambient mics etc and was just trying to work out what your set up is.

Are you running the FB mix, your guitar, and vocals into the PM351, and then into one side of your IEMs and then an ambient mic into the other side of the IEMs - then blending the 2 using the volume controls on the the front of your PSM200?

Barisaxman · #4 05-03-2011, 08:36 AM

A proper Aux feed from FOH is the best solution, if you can't get your own mix from FOH, it's going to be an uphill battle to get anything close to what you want. I use a Shure PSM200 system, and even though I used to use both channels to give me a "more me" on my bass, I don't even do that anymore. I always have my own aux mix, so the sound tech can give me whatever I want and I don't have to mess with it.

billhilly66 · #5 05-03-2011, 01:09 PM

I have a PM351 too. It's small and handy. I usually have a discrete mix but on sub gigs when I don't, it does the trick with either FOH or a monitor send mixed with my bass and vocal mic.

Rocksolid · #6 05-03-2011, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barisaxman

A proper Aux feed from FOH is the best solution, if you can't get your own mix from FOH, it's going to be an uphill battle to get anything close to what you want. I use a Shure PSM200 system, and even though I used to use both channels to give me a "more me" on my bass, I don't even do that anymore. I always have my own aux mix, so the sound tech can give me whatever I want and I don't have to mess with it.

Yeah I used to have my own aux send from the desk with my old band, but there were only 2 singers in that band. With the band I am in now there are 3 female vocalists all demanding their own IEM mix, and I only sing a few songs now so i get stuck with the general FB mix on stage that is there for everyone else. That's why I am going down this road - trying to make the best of the situation I have.

MNAirHead · #7 05-04-2011, 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barisaxman

A proper Aux feed from FOH is the best solution, if you can't get your own mix from FOH, it's going to be an uphill battle to get anything close to what you want. I use a Shure PSM200 system, and even though I used to use both channels to give me a "more me" on my bass, I don't even do that anymore. I always have my own aux mix, so the sound tech can give me whatever I want and I don't have to mess with it.

I sincerely appreciate your position...

99% of us gig in reality....

=====

I'll start with the basic reality.

Question 101: "When is the last time you looked out and saw a sound engineer mixing monitors with a set of cans on?"

Reply: Blatantly Obvious

OPINION: For the small price of a used Rolls PM351 or PM350 it's risky to NOT have one.... this box also doubles as a hard wire IEM option.. DI... and "more me" mixer.

I'm a fan of the PSM200... I own my primary PA system.. the reality is in gig land, it's prudent to have a small knob ready to tweek when necessary. It removes dorking around when on site.... IF you sing (and should be) - the Rolls box allows you to tweek both the bass and vocals.

MNAirHead · #8 05-04-2011, 02:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocksolid

Ha! I knew you would chime in and I knew what your vote would be!!!

Just on side note (I don't want to derail my own thread)...I was reading some of your posts about ambient mics etc and was just trying to work out what your set up is.

Are you running the FB mix, your guitar, and vocals into the PM351, and then into one side of your IEMs and then an ambient mic into the other side of the IEMs - then blending the 2 using the volume controls on the the front of your PSM200?

I do tons and tons of fill in one-off playing. Whenever possible, I go IEM.

After dorking around with this stuff for hours and hours, what Iv'e found works best is to send the signal chain to the Rolls PM351 for monitors/vocal/bass mix --- I then will send a microphone to the Shure PS200 (there are 2 ins on this) .. I have the other one connected to the Rolls box.

This microphone (small stealthy Shure) can then be used to mike a monitor (if they can't figure out how to send me a non amped signal -- OR can be used for ambient mike.

----

One of the things I quickly noticed when researching/assembling IEM is that most people do not take into account "what if" scenarios and/or acknowledge reality uses.

I welcome PMs on IEM (hardwire or wireless) implementation.

MNAirHead · #9 05-04-2011, 02:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rocksolid

Yeah I used to have my own aux send from the desk with my old band, but there were only 2 singers in that band. With the band I am in now there are 3 female vocalists all demanding their own IEM mix, and I only sing a few songs now so i get stuck with the general FB mix on stage that is there for everyone else. That's why I am going down this road - trying to make the best of the situation I have.

This is what the Rolls Box fixes...

Ask any tenured sound engineer -- people want more of themselves bumped in the monitor mix.

Rocksolid · #10 05-05-2011, 07:52 AM

Well I "borrowed" a MX882 from my local shop to try out, and the PM351 my brother ordered from the USA arrived yesterday - so as luck would have it I had both to A/B to each other!

The MX882 does everything I need - EXCEPT that the channel volume doesn't have enough gain for a microphone. I had it up full and it was only just enough to keep up with the bass level at half. I pumped my ipod through another channel to try and give the effect of mains or folds coming in also and that was on a 1/4.

The Rolls had heaps of gain on all inputs - so much that I can drop down the input level on my inears. So it looks like I'm going to have to find a funky way of racking up the PM351 on a shelf with my In ears...

MNAirHead · #11 05-05-2011, 09:12 AM

shelf? Cable Tie it through some holes.

billhilly66 · #12 05-05-2011, 02:16 PM

VELCRO!

MNAirHead · #13 05-05-2011, 03:12 PM

If it's a tight rack, cable ties can be cut in an emergency.

Rocksolid · #14 05-06-2011, 12:03 AM

I'm thinking velco for the wireless as it has no feet and perhaps cables ties for the PM351 as it has feet on it and I would prefer to keep them on it.

The MX882 didn't have enough gain for the mic as it is purely a line level mixer - there are no preamps on any of the channels. So close but so far...

MNAirHead · #15 05-06-2011, 05:44 AM

I own several pieces of behringer gear...

That being said..

One is hard core pro-class gear.... the other looks like it is.

billhilly66 · #16 05-06-2011, 09:21 AM

I keep my PM351 in a pistol case along with my cheap back up IEM's, reciever, and antenna. I don't use it on most gigs so I don't want it permanaently mounted. I use it more as a practice tool at home for learning new tunes. I can plug the headphone out of my PC into the line in and run my bass into it so I can work on tunes without disturbing anyone.

When I have a gig I need it on, I just put in in the case and throw it in the gig bag. It's handier to have it 'loose' so I can run the cables.

Rocksolid · #17 05-06-2011, 06:25 PM

Well I used the PM 351 i borrowed from my brother on a gig last night and it went fairly well. For me the biggest thing is working out how hard to drive everything - the 3 channels on the PM351, the input gain on the IEMs, and the body pack.

I still had my MA400 behringer in the back of my rack (which is essentially a 2 channel version of the PM351) so I used that to blend the main FOH mix, to an ambient mic I had set up on the other side of the stage, and then out of that into the line in of the PM351.

The few issues I had were:

It seemed that the line from the FOH could clip the PM351 pretty easily, anything past 12 oclock on the dial was pushing it.

my bass signal clips my In ears even when the PM351 isn't pushing it that hard.

If I puch the input gain on my inears a little harder then the line sound comes to life, but I am flirting with the bass signal clipping the inears.

My beta 58 had massive gain, and anything above 10 or 11 oclock would clip the PM351 also.

As I said though, I should be able to sort this out by playing with the levels to get them to all play nicely together.

Regarding the MX882 - I am wondering if I can use the mic pre in the MA400 to boost gain on a mic enough for it to work with the MX882. Hmmm....

Rocksolid · #18 05-09-2011, 09:04 AM

I just pulled the trigger on the PM351 - should see it in a week or so!

MNAirHead · #19 05-09-2011, 04:08 PM

It does take time to get all of the levels happily playing together.

NickfromSOS · #20 05-10-2011, 09:08 AM

I have been gigging for the past 6 years or so with the following in ear monitor set-up...

Mic to Art Splitcom (2nd send to FOH mix) to Behringer Xenyx 1202FX mixer
take the monitor out feed of the powered head so I get the lead vocalists monitor mix to 2nd channel of the behringer.
Bass direct out to 3rd channel on the behringer.
Use 30 ft headphone extention cable tied to my instrument cable to my bass head so they don't coil up together. Shure in ear monitors (which I don't love, to be honest). It's not wireless, but it works great. I can put reverb on my vocals in my monitor mix. I control what I want. Everything is great. I've used this on just about every stage, big and small, even with house PA systems and sound guys. I just ask for an XLR feed of my monitor mix instead of the monitor out of the PA head I use for my set up. I've never, ever had an issue with Behringer pieces not holding up with the exception of the power supply bending in the jack that goes into the unit. Had to find a replacement, which isn't easy.