Mixer reccomendation, Best for Metal?

MooseLumps · #1 05-07-2011, 11:00 PM

So, I'm researching different mixers as the beginning of my personal and band PA. I have several thoughts, and I'm soliciting opinions.

My needs:
I'm part of a three piece group. Two Vox mics, 2-3 feeds for guitar, 1-2 feeds for bass, 7-9 for Drums and 1-2 for the occasional synth. In the past, we've made due with a Soundcraft Gigrack and some creative routing. It's insufficient for any professional presentation of our sound. So we/I need a 16-20 channel board with 4-6 auxes. A three band eq seems standard, but if I can find something with two mid sweeps I'd be very pleased.

Also, I want to do sound for some locals as well, so I'd like something flexible (I know, a flexible mixer? Radical Thinking!!) I've looked at the current Yammie MG offerings and they seem to lack the routing options I'd like. the Yorkville stuff is lacking in auxes. I'd like a pair of subgroups, 4 if I can find them but I can live without. I cant find a really convincing amount of reviews for Behringer or Nady gear, so they are out for now. It seems tough to find a Soundcraft with what I need for the price I'm wanting to pay, as well as my experience with them being hit and miss. I would love to get my hands on an FX16ii, as it looks like a direct competitor for the Mackie 1604, but with effects.

Price, under 900 used for now. I can upgrade later.

Thought one. A used Mackie 1604 VLZ pro. A board that I'm used to, and one that I'm pretty sure would do the job. One of the few that aren't 40 channel surfboards, have the number of auxes I feel I need and don't break the bank. It's not my favorite board, but I don't dislike it. It would be a stepping stone to a 01v96 VCM Version two, Presonus studiolive 24:4, Crest Audio XR 20... ect.

I don't have any experience with those particular boards, but the specs look appealing. Also, since I have 0 outboard gear as of now, the digital boards would provide some savings in outboard gear (I expect to have to run some outboard gear... we will see.)

Other thoughts:
Peavey fx 16 or 24
Allen and Heath Mixwiz 16:2 or Zed 420(Have to save up for this baby.)
Carvin c1648,or 2448

So my questions are these:
Should I just stick with the Mackie? There's something to be said for the classics (Flame Suit on)
Are there any notable boards that I've missed?
Anybody think I'm going about this the wrong way?
What are your thoughts in general?

MNAirHead · #2 05-08-2011, 12:09 AM

Why not have the drummer send a sub-mix?

This would solve your problem.

Hellbastard · #3 05-08-2011, 04:09 AM

Which Yamaha MG have you consider? We have a MG24/14FX, it has plenty of routing options, 16mic pres and 4 st channels, 4-6 auxes, 2FX sends, 4 Groups and 2 internal Digital FX processors with faders for each one.

We bought the Yamaha because we wanted to expand from our Mackie CFX16Mkii, which is a great little board, but I personally find the fact that you need to send everything to a Sub, before sending tothe main mix, really annoying.
Honestly though, I would have loved to buy another Mackie board because the Pre's sound better than the Yamaha's.

Jimbob Jones · #4 05-08-2011, 05:20 AM

See if you can sniff out a used A&H GL2400; my church used to use one and they're really great desks.

I don't know if you can get them in the US, but the Soundcraft Spirit series are great, and cheap.

zjanderson · #5 05-08-2011, 08:52 AM

I like the A&H 16:2 MixWiz

modulusman · #6 05-08-2011, 09:50 AM

I don't know. I think all the boards mentioned so far would be good for country&western and maybe jazz but not metal.

uhdinator · #7 05-08-2011, 11:11 AM

Allen & Heath....... All the way. Built better and even has effects.

MooseLumps · #8 05-08-2011, 01:56 PM

My hesitation about Allen and Heath boards is the lack of Aux returns. I'm a little stunned at that. Same with the Yammies.

Passinwind · #9 05-08-2011, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooseLumps

My hesitation about Allen and Heath boards is the lack of Aux returns. I'm a little stunned at that. Same with the Yammies.

Returning to channel strips works a lot better anyway. It lets you EQ EFX and route to your monitors if desired. Just make sure you have enough inputs to do so. Many of the A&H boards have a nice matrix mix section that can do aux returns too though.

I owned a MixWiz and have also mixed on Zeds and a GL2400 a lot. All of them are easy to work on, both mixing and repair-wise. The Mackies are no fun to repair, have global phantom, a questionable main bus, and on the older ones at least, a goofy aux assignment scheme. But yeah, you can still do a reasonable mix on one in many cases.

I currently have an XR20. Come on down and play with it sometime.

MooseLumps · #10 05-08-2011, 04:16 PM

Perhaps it's my lack of experience (I'll admit that I've had a lot of board time, but always in very rudimentary setups) but are you saying that you would run your auxes through your outboard gear and back into the inserts? That seems like the logical alternative, and also sort of a duh moment on my part. Is that the Standard Operating Procedure?

Passinwind · #11 05-08-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MooseLumps

Perhaps it's my lack of experience (I'll admit that I've had a lot of board time, but always in very rudimentary setups) but are you saying that you would run your auxes through your outboard gear and back into the inserts? That seems like the logical alternative, and also sort of a duh moment on my part. Is that the Standard Operating Procedure?

It's pretty common. Not to inserts though, to unused input channels. So on my standard patch labeling, channels 15 and 16 would be usually be delay return and reverb return, for example. My board has four stereo strips, so I can return in stereo without using up two strips, assuming I am running a stereo rig to begin with.

MooseLumps · #12 05-08-2011, 04:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

Why not have the drummer send a sub-mix?

This would solve your problem.

I could have the drummer send a sub, but it removes some of the flexibility of controlling everything from one spot, as well as the fact that I'm definitely getting a new mixer that can handle some local bands, so smaller is no savings here. There is a good chance that while I'm running the mackie (Most likely path right now), I'll have him sub mix his mics into the gigrack and then send it my way, and I'll take the effects direct.

MooseLumps · #13 05-08-2011, 04:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passinwind

It's pretty common. Not to inserts though, to unused input channels. So on my standard patch labeling, channels 15 and 16 would be usually be delay return and reverb return, for example. My board has four stereo strips, so I can return in stereo without using up two strips, assuming I am running a stereo rig to begin with.

Aah, enlightening. It seems that that scheme would eat a lot of channels for effects heavy bands... Perhaps I really do need more channels.

Also, I'm thinking of relocating to PDX, so I may take you up on your offer, Charlie.

projectMalamute · #14 05-09-2011, 09:22 AM

A used Soundcraft Spirit LX7-24 fits your criteria pretty well. 24 mono channels + 2 stereo channels + 2 effects returns, 6 aux, 4 groups + mono sum, 4 band EQ with sweepable mids + HPF. Reasonable amount of headroom on the busses, EQ is fine, micamps are fine. Sounds about a billion times nicer than a Mackie.

I got mine used for 800 bucks. They are a pretty common install in clubs, at least around here, lots of them floating around.

Passinwind · #15 05-09-2011, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by projectMalamute

A used Soundcraft Spirit LX7-24 fits your criteria pretty well. 24 mono channels + 2 stereo channels + 2 effects returns, 6 aux, 4 groups + mono sum, 4 band EQ with sweepable mids + HPF. Reasonable amount of headroom on the busses, EQ is fine, micamps are fine. Sounds about a billion times nicer than a Mackie.

+1

I've only mixed on my friend's LX7 a couple of times, but me likes.

stflbn · #16 05-09-2011, 10:49 AM

Allen and Heath Mixwiz 16:2

walterw · #17 05-09-2011, 09:56 PM

i had a soundcraft spirit fx-16; it sounded good until it died on a gig, at which point it died. everything is on one big surface-mount circuitboard, so there's no real fixing it.

a mixwix has separate boards for each channel like "real" mixers, so they're bulletproof and fixable.

Manndreas · #18 05-10-2011, 04:29 AM

I can highly recommend a GL-series mixer if you can find one at your price point.

I regularly mix bands on a A&H GL3800. Lovely board except for the lack of flexibility on the aux sends. Pre/post fader is grouped in fours on my board which makes it hard for me if I want 6 monitor sends and 2 effect sends.
Other than that it's great. The colour scheme makes it easy to find everything fast, good "feel" on the pots and faders, 2 mid sweeps.

uhdinator · #19 05-10-2011, 05:01 AM

You can change jumpers on each channel circuit board on the Mix Wizards and GL series too I believe to allow you to configure the auxs pre or post EQ and insert. Lots of options. Download and read the manuals while researching.

steve_rolfeca · #20 05-10-2011, 05:27 AM

+1 on prior posts that have recommended 24 channel boards. Effects return to a fader is much nicer, and if you're currently thinking "16-20" channels, then you WILL need more than 16.

You're going to run into the unexpected when you do sound for other people: dual stereo keyboard rigs, guitar players with one amp for clean and one for dirty, tracks on laptops, etc.

Setup will go faster, and you'll look more professional, if you can just smile and handle it. In the end, that means more callbacks, and more money in your pocket. You should be able to quickly recoup the return on your initial investment.

A big board helps your image, as well. My dad had a side business as a photographer, and he used to talk about "big camera syndrome". Although they could easily shoot with a mid-priced camera these days, 99% of commercial wedding photographers still carry monster rigs. It's partly because of ruggedness, etc., but it's also to set them apart from Aunt Alice and her $600 digital SLR.