Monitor mix same as FOH?

MuzikMan · #1 06-11-2011, 06:07 PM

I am going to be mixing my new band from the stage when we play indoors in small clubs (100 or less). We have two QSC K8 fronts and one QSC KW181 sub. There will be four vocals, bass, keys, and kick drum through the mains. Our one guitar player will probably not be run through the PA. We will be using four EV ZXA-1 monitors for the stage. I want to try to run the bass and keys ampless. What do you think of the idea of using the same FOH mix for the foldbacks? I think it would make it much easier to keep the FOH dialed in from the stage if I hear (almost) the same mix.

jaywa · #2 06-11-2011, 06:14 PM

Should work, assuming you're the bassist. Lots of times though bass gets shafted in the mix and then It's not a good idea. Also I have observed that the prevalence of More Me Syndrome varies in inverse proportion to relative skill and experience of the musicians involved.

MuzikMan · #3 06-11-2011, 06:18 PM

Good point on the "more me" principle. My goals are to have a good, even, supporting mix for the vocals. We are an "80's nostalgia" type of act with a guitar player that has great volume control (go figure). Personally, I hate being too loud as a band and I always try to mix and play for the song.

MuzikMan · #4 06-11-2011, 06:21 PM

I should probably add that as the leader of the band there will not be any musicians that cry to be louder. I have spent a good amount of time finding players that are seasoned and sensible. No more crybabies for me please!

TomB · #5 06-11-2011, 07:22 PM

In my experience, that's a good starting point as long as you use common sense. It will give you a good relative image of the mains, though it's still hard to know how the PA balances with the rest of the stage sound out front. Have a skilled mixer stop by and give you some feedback. Once you've done it a few times, and gotten some honest feedback from skilled friends in the room, you should be able to figure out guiding principles to fine-tune the mix for any room based on what you hear on stage.

seanm · #6 06-11-2011, 09:14 PM

We generally have mainly vocals in the monitors. There will be enough volume on stage and bleed through the mics for the other instruments.

The drummer usually wants more bass drum and bass if you can give him a separate mix.

Even if you do send the FOH signal through the monitors, it will not sound the same. Nothing beats going out into the audience to mix the FOH. But that is only IMHO.

Munjibunga · #7 06-11-2011, 11:59 PM

I do this in my trio, but that's because I'm mixing the main mix from my stool (you know, "fools on stools"). It works well because we rehearse with the main mix pointing at us.

In my classic rock band, we run a separate monitor mix so we can get the vocals on top, and emphasize a couple key instruments.

MNAirHead · #8 06-12-2011, 06:16 AM

Couple of notes. If running some amps and acoustic drums your guys are risky to volume Imbalance.

I started a band to do exactly this. We started from the the ground up. Modeling boards. Vdrums. Complete pa. Zero stage sound. For simplicity we use a single wedge mixed to the same as foh. I supply hardwire iem if they want more me from fob

The entire band fits into a single minivan

I absolutely love it. If your band has ameteuers it will be tough or fail

Think of it as studio sound. Not rock band.

MuzikMan · #9 06-12-2011, 06:35 AM

I do want us to be as close to zero stage volume as possible. The drummer has V-Drums but he is not happy with the feel and we both think that they sound a little cheap. Believe me, if I had the money I would buy a better set myself. The guitar player is a new addition so I don't know him yet but he plays very responsibly with volume. I wonder if he would be into some kind of modeling setup?

I like the IEM idea for those who might want a "more me" mix.

philter25 · #10 06-17-2011, 07:07 AM

Did you try this setup? How did the ZXA1's handle it?

We are a similar setup, cover band, keys, bass guitar, drums, acoustic guitar. We just got a new key player who doesnt have an amp, so instead of an amp, I suggested a powered compact speaker.

I have a JBL Eon G210 that we use as a monitor and with the old key player, her Roland keyboard amp was a 4 channel so we just plugged a monitor mix into her key amp and that was sufficient for our on stage volume needs.

The new key player needs a powered speaker, so I was curious what you thought of them. The size, wattage, spl, and price are spot on.

How is the bass response? Vocal reproduction? Harsh or natural?

TimmyP · #11 06-19-2011, 11:39 PM

Even if the monitors and mains match, the sound in the room will be nothing like the sound on stage, so having the same mix will not give you the same sound. Someone other than the lead singer needs to be wireless so he can walk the house and then go back to the board to make changes.

The more monitor mixes the better, as most folks like to hear themselves 6dB to 10dB hotter than they hear anyone else.