My slapping gets buried

[martskre]

Hello everyone,

Whenever I go from a nice full punchy tone of fingerstyle, to playing slap, my volume drops and I loose that well defined tone, which buries me in a band setting. The bass range is gone until I start using my fingers again. I can compensate by turning the volume up on the amp, but then when I go back to fingerstyle it just overwhelms everything else, and is especially louder in the bass range.

I understand that a slap tone is completely different from a fingerstyle tone, but I'm looking for that middle ground thing where I can play both styles in the same song without loosing my punch.


Is there any way to deal with this issue? Is it possible to keep that well defined "meaty" punchy tone and volume when switching back and forth between both styles in the middle of a song?

I play a Geddy Lee Jazz stringed with D'Addario EXL170 roundwounds.


Thanks for your time. Any kind of input is appreciated.

[bass12]

This is often a problem. Slapping definitely produces a less "bassy" sound than does playing fingerstyle (just as playing with a pick produces a more mid-rangey sound). Slap sounds vary a lot from bass to bass, and I've found that some basses have a lot less low-end "drop-out" than others. I had the problem you are experiencing with Music Man Stingrays, but find that my Fender '62 Jazz reissue retains most of the low end when I slap. I'm not familiar enough with the Geddy Lee Model to tell you what is causing the drop-out in your case, but I will say that 20-fret basses seem to maintain more low-end when slapped than do 22 or 24-fret basses. My advice would be to try out some other Fenders and see if you notice a difference. Good luck!

[GregShadoan]

A volume pedal seems in order. Or, you could get a good slap sound, then adjust (read lighten up) your finger/pick style to compensate. Personally, I would never leave home without my trusty EB volume pedal mo hummner.

[David1234]

Also note that some pickups don't sense very much motion that's perpendicular to the frets, only motion that's parallel to the frets. I've noticed this more on hum-free designs, but it does not affect all of them. You may find, through experimenting, that you need a different pickup selection for those songs where both styles apply.

[Tehrin Cole]

The Geddy Lee model,is simply a"Jazz Bass".In my experience(being a "jazz bass"player,myself),the optimum"slap"sound is best achieved,when your volume and tone controls are "wide open"(turned all the way up).What you're getting is,the full tonal range of the instrument.There are other factors to be considered,as well,such as:Where on the bass,do you slap?WHERE you play on the instrument can greatly affect which tonalities get highlighted,and which ones get diminished,...hand placement is very important.2:How do EQ your amplifier?3:What type,or brand of amplifier do you use?What type of strings,do you use,roundwound,or flatwound?These are just a few factors,that you may want to consider.In any case,try playing your instrument "wide open",reposition your thumb,and experiment with different EQ's on your amplfier.As I've previously stated,hand position is very important,so with that said,here's a pointer I'd like to share with you:Normally when I slap,I like to place my thumb at the the bottom of the fingerboard,....I find that,this is where I get the most punch,without compromising the"bottom",...you can really,get the bass to"speak",as well as"thunder"!Remember,...you're playing a "Jazz Bass",...the ORIGINAL"slap bass",so,that sound is there,....trust me! Peace!

[JackANSI]

Light compression, more mids, a touch less bass. cured me.

[JimmyM]

Two words...technique, technique, technique.

Do not use technology to fix technique problems. If the low end goes away when you slap, you're not hitting the strings right. Concentrate on the way you hit the strings with your thumb, and try to get as fat a sound as possible. Remember what you do to make it sound fat, then do it all the time. Use some force behind your thumb slaps, but don't use so much force that you kill the vibration of the string.

[bass12]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Two words...technique, technique, technique.

Do not use technology to fix technique problems. If the low end goes away when you slap, you're not hitting the strings right. Concentrate on the way you hit the strings with your thumb, and try to get as fat a sound as possible. Remember what you do to make it sound fat, then do it all the time. Use some force behind your thumb slaps, but don't use so much force that you kill the vibration of the string.

Bass "drop-out" in a slap context often has more to do with the instrument than it does with technique. I spent years being frustrated because I couldn't get a good slap sound out of my bass. I thought the problem was me. Then I tried a properly set-up Jazz and I sounded (almost) great. Contrary to what some people will tell you about tone, it's not "all in the fingers" (or thumb). There are a lot of variables at work when it comes to tone. Even if you have weak technique, you'd still be able to thump a string (something most two-year olds can do) on a well set-up, "slap-friendly" bass and get a sound with little drop-out in the bass frequencies. Go out and compare some basses. Do work on your technique, but realize that there is more to it than just that.

[two fingers]

EQ pedal maybe? Play finger style without it, then stomp on it for slap?

[totallyfrozen]

Originally Posted by two fingers

EQ pedal maybe? Play finger style without it, then stomp on it for slap?

That's what I was going to say. Only not being an experienced or proficient slapper myself, I don't really know.
Sure seems like it could really help. I use a Boss GEB-7 in my set up for the purpose of adding some low-mids "on short notice" so that I don't have to stop playing to twirl knobs on the amp. Anyway, this solution seems to make the most sense if other things are equal (i.e. the bass & amp are of good quality and are set up properly; and the player has the proper technique for clean, bright slapping).

I also have to toss up a +1 for working on technique. All though "all" your tone might not be in your finger technique, I think a great deal of it is.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bass12

Bass "drop-out" in a slap context often has more to do with the instrument than it does with technique. I spent years being frustrated because I couldn't get a good slap sound out of my bass. I thought the problem was me. Then I tried a properly set-up Jazz and I sounded (almost) great. Contrary to what some people will tell you about tone, it's not "all in the fingers" (or thumb). There are a lot of variables at work when it comes to tone. Even if you have weak technique, you'd still be able to thump a string (something most two-year olds can do) on a well set-up, "slap-friendly" bass and get a sound with little drop-out in the bass frequencies. Go out and compare some basses. Do work on your technique, but realize that there is more to it than just that.

Sorry, but after over 30 years of playing pro, there are very very few basses out there that I can't make work for slap, all of which are short scale hollowbodies, and none of which are Fender Jazz basses. It ain't the bass. This is a well-known issue with slap bass ever since it started, and it's a technique issue, period. It's all in how you come down on a string. A two year old can thump a string, but he can't do it consistently to make a big fat strong sound. That's all it is...hitting the string in such a way where it sounds big and fat. Feel free to disagree, but know that you will be wrong if you do It isn't the feel good answer everyone wants to hear, but if people want to solve their problems for real, then they shouldn't throw money at equipment trying to solve them.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Sorry, but after over 30 years of playing pro, there are very very few basses out there that I can't make work for slap, all of which are short scale hollowbodies, and none of which are Fender Jazz basses. It ain't the bass. This is a well-known issue with slap bass ever since it started, and it's a technique issue, period. It's all in how you come down on a string. A two year old can thump a string, but he can't do it consistently to make a big fat strong sound. That's all it is...hitting the string in such a way where it sounds big and fat. Feel free to disagree, but know that you will be wrong if you do It isn't the feel good answer everyone wants to hear, but if people want to solve their problems for real, then they shouldn't throw money at equipment trying to solve them.

I'd agree with this for the most part.

However, I have owned a couple of basses that had enough compression when slapped as to be a problem. I'm not sure what the physics of the thing is, but in somewhat rare cases, a bass will 'absorb' the fundamental of the note when aggressively slapped (it sounds almost like a compressor set too high... that quashing of the note resulting in the deep low end disappearing... almost as if someone was turning down the bass control on your amp as you slap the E string). This effect is not 'brand specific', but rather happens again on rare occasions with specific instruments. And, the instrument will sound just fine when playing with a less percussive fingerstyle technique.

Also, since slap style really sends some brutal transients to the amp (i.e., very strong, percussive input to your amp at low frequencies), it will really test your amp and cab. An amp and cab that sound perfectly fine even at loud volumes can totally fold when subjected to slapping. This is especially true with lower powered solid state heads run at 8ohms. It's very easy to hit that power amp limiting when slapping, even at quite moderate volumes.

I agree with Jimmy that it is most likely a technique issue. It takes a lot of hours to get your slap technique so that you can switch from fingerstyle to slap without any change in volume or general 'fatness of tone' without touching any knobs, etc. There is absolutely NO reason to EVER have to change setting, volume, etc. going from slap to fingerstyle if you have your technique down. However, it's amazing how much power and 'cab size' you need to propel a good, even slap tone into the audience with backline compared to fingerstyle playing. So, the instrument and rig have IMO and IME a lot more impact on slap style than fingerstyle playing.

You might want to borrow a bass and try a different amp if you have a buddy that will let you do it (or just to to Guiter Center or something) to try to identify what the issue is.

IMO and IME.

[swankfrank6]

i definitely understand where you're coming from.
so far i've just avoided the problem and just quit slapping in my church band haha.

[varunkapahi]

are you scooping out mids heavily for your slap tone? that would get you buried in any situation. otherwise i cant imagine why would the slap "volume" could be lower than the finer style volume as the slap attack is way harder!

[Vic Winters]

EQ or preamp pedal.

[MakiSupaStar]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Sorry, but after over 30 years of playing pro, there are very very few basses out there that I can't make work for slap, all of which are short scale hollowbodies, and none of which are Fender Jazz basses. It ain't the bass. This is a well-known issue with slap bass ever since it started, and it's a technique issue, period. It's all in how you come down on a string. A two year old can thump a string, but he can't do it consistently to make a big fat strong sound. That's all it is...hitting the string in such a way where it sounds big and fat. Feel free to disagree, but know that you will be wrong if you do It isn't the feel good answer everyone wants to hear, but if people want to solve their problems for real, then they shouldn't throw money at equipment trying to solve them.

+1.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by MakiSupaStar

+1.

Even though I did my typical 'yes, but....' in my previous post, I'll reinforce JimmyM's basic premise by +1'ing your +1.

A 'beginner' slapper (not sure if this describes the OP or not) typically has a very thin thump tone, and a pluck or pop tone that is harsh and over loud. Some use a compressor to help with this (wimps!). Others head to the woodshed for a couple of years

[bass12]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

Sorry, but after over 30 years of playing pro, there are very very few basses out there that I can't make work for slap, all of which are short scale hollowbodies, and none of which are Fender Jazz basses. It ain't the bass. This is a well-known issue with slap bass ever since it started, and it's a technique issue, period. It's all in how you come down on a string. A two year old can thump a string, but he can't do it consistently to make a big fat strong sound. That's all it is...hitting the string in such a way where it sounds big and fat. Feel free to disagree, but know that you will be wrong if you do It isn't the feel good answer everyone wants to hear, but if people want to solve their problems for real, then they shouldn't throw money at equipment trying to solve them.

I will disagree. I'll guarantee that my basic slap technique is as good as that of anyone here and I know that some basses work better for slapping than do others. Woods, pickups, pick up placement, electronics and number of frets can all help determine the slap tone produced. I've had several basses, from 20-fret Jazzes to 26-fret Thumbs and they all sound different when slapped. I'm pretty sure that I don't change my technique of slapping for each bass, yet - strangely enough - they all sound different. Do you really think that Marcus Miller would sound the same playing one of Mark King's basses and vice-versa? If we are to follow your line of thinking, then the answer would have to be "yes" because, after all, it's "all in how you come down on a string"...

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by bass12

I will disagree. I'll guarantee that my basic slap technique is as good as that of anyone here and I know that some basses work better for slapping than do others. Woods, pickups, pick up placement, electronics and number of frets can all help determine the slap tone produced. I've had several basses, from 20-fret Jazzes to 26-fret Thumbs and they all sound different when slapped. I'm pretty sure that I don't change my technique of slapping for each bass, yet - strangely enough - they all sound different. Do you really think that Marcus Miller would sound the same playing one of Mark King's basses and vice-versa? If we are to follow your line of thinking, then the answer would have to be "yes" because, after all, it's "all in how you come down on a string"...

You're throwing in a second issue that's irrelevant. Of course Marcus would sound a little different on Mark King's bass, but do you really think he wouldn't be able to get a strong slap out of it? Or vice versa? Let's get real here. Maybe it wouldn't be what each other likes, but they can most certainly play each other's basses no problem. Besides, this is a Fender Jazz we're talking about...it's the most slapped bass on earth.

[Adrian_Rayn]

I'd definitely say ask around, to other bassists. They get that slapping tone you're looking for from a little bit of what they're playing, sure, but they get it mostly from how they're playing it. Check and see what they're doing that you aren't.