Needing advice on DI and multi FX

[PierreCA]

I have a Fender P bass (american) and I have a musicmaster '78 musicmaster. (both passive basses)

Right now I'm in the middle of searching to see what it is my best option.

I'm sort of set when it comes to effects on the line 6 M9. A friend has the M13 and the M9 looks good enough for what i'm looking for if paired up with an expression pedal.

I don't have an amp yet and I've been trying to find one where I live (dominican republic) but haven't found one that is good enough. I'm thinking of buying a DI to use as a preamp or to connect to amps that are there for me to use live (which most of the time aren't so good.. yesterday for example I played with a behringer ultra bass head and cab).

What do you suggest?
Tone Hammer or Sansamp bass driver?
Is there something else I should do?
Should I wait for a good amp?
Is the M9 a good option or do you think there's something better than that?

I have enough money for the M9 and around 250 dollars for the DI/preamp. The M9 is worth around 430$.

I appreciate you taking time to reply.

[JimmyM]

straight up di's don't make very good preamps. so if you were to use the crappy supplied amps on gigs, i'd go preamp, though the amp should probably be more of a priority for you. i like the sansamp vt deluxe myself, but any of them will work as long as they suit your tastes.

as for the m9, it's considered king of multi-effects these days, though i've yet to try one and couldn't tell you how it works. but honestly, i don't think i'd get one until i had my amp situation squared away. but that's just me and ymmv.

[PierreCA]

What if they have speakers and monitors on stage plus amps? Would DIs work there or is it still better to buy an amp and have it mic'd live?

Thanks for responding!

[fivestringgecko]

My Sansamp Bass Driver has earned a permanent spot on my board. It does color your sound a bit, but in a good way. I kick it on when I want a tubey, old school funk grind (I usually have the overdrive just barely on). The BDDI has proven VERY useful... it can make less expensive gear sound pretty darn good, I can hook directly into a sound board and it's even saved a recording session when a mysterious buzz popped up somewhere in the studio equipment (not MY gear).

The Tone Hammer is a recent addition to my G.A.S. list, definitely want to check it out. I've read that it has much less color than the Sansamp, the TH is more like "the tone of your bass, just with an EQ." Can't confirm that though. The overdrive section is what first caught my attention on the Tone Hammer, but now I want to see how the whole pedal compares to the Sansamp.

I've never tried running my BDDI as a preamp directly to a power amp, so I can't quite comment... but it sounds pretty darn good going directly to a recording console. Also, if you've seen the Tone Hammer sound clips page, it looks like all the clips were recorded directly into PCs. Not sure how either pedal would translate from going direct to board versus going to a PA power amp though.

Like JimmyM, I'd suggest getting your amp situation squared away first. If you can find a good rig, chances are it'll have a decent DI as well. I have a Shuttle 6.0... not only is it a great amp, but I've had a couple pro sound guys comment on how the DI sounds good.

A small (somewhat) related tip... I prefer mic'ing my cab (to get the cab sound to the house), but I always try to mic my cab AND run a DI. That way, if one fails the sound guy has the other ready with the slide of a fader

5sg.

[PierreCA]

I've read about the shuttle 6.0 but my main issue is the shipping prices from US to dominican republic, it's not even funny and I can't seem to find any amp that is worth my money here. Most bands here play merengue or raggaeton and don't really care about a clean bass tone much less color.

I'm still clueless as to what I should do. I thought a good (and cheap way) would be to just buy a DI and pass it directly to the PA system and monitors but then I would be depending on the quality of the sound the event planners acquire.

How reliable is the sansamp in this situation?

[standupbassman]

the boss gt-10b has balanced XLR outputs (DI outputs) and has a built in pre-amp simulator and something like 5 ways of eq-ing your bass.

[slaerts]

Hey Mate, looking at your initial description of what you want and what you have there are 5 pedals that should be on your list to try. I think you might want/neeed a mute switch to swap basses? You will want something that is coloured enough that you always get a good sound no matter what the back line is and you always give a reliable sound to the pa. I've used the following for years with no problems, apart from the vt deluxe but it seems quite similar to the BDDI Deluxe anyway. I'm assuming you will run bass>m9>di>backline and PA.
1. Sansamp Bass Driver (paradriver/programmabel/deluxe programmabel - they are all similar)- A somewhat coloured tone but a good coloured tone. The deluxe and programmabel will allow you a mute switch channel to swap basses over in a set without the popping sound. (not sure if the m9 has a mute)
2. Sadowsky pre-di similar yet simpler functions (2 band eq) to the sansamps different tone colour and a dedicated mute switch.
3. VT deluxe by sansamp - similar to the BDDI deluxe but with more tone shaping options the current flavour of the month as it is new.
4. EBS Microbass II - does all the above and more, but more expensive.
5. Radial tonebone - I don't like the fact it didn't run on batteries and had an unusual 15 volt dc power supply. Can't remember if it ran off phantom power. but had a second chanel for second bass and the overdrive option can also be set as a mute instead can't remember exactly now but i did have it set as a mute somehow.
A possible 6th option might be something from Dave Hall (DHA) he has several options too. I hate the visuals of his work and have steered clear for that reason.

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by PierreCA

I'm still clueless as to what I should do. I thought a good (and cheap way) would be to just buy a DI and pass it directly to the PA system and monitors but then I would be depending on the quality of the sound the event planners acquire.

How reliable is the sansamp in this situation?

Running any DI like the Sansamp, Tone Hammer, MXR M80, Radial Bassbone, EBS Microbass or whatever directly to a PA would definitely work fine, but.... you can never rely on house sound, IMO. You never know what you're going to get. There might not BE any monitors. Heck, there might not be any house sound AT ALL, you know? I'd much rather have a reliable, consistent bass rig of my own than have to rely on chance.

The Sansamp is built VERY solid. I wouldn't purposely drop it off a building or anything, but I bet it could take it. I've had mine on my pedalboard for... two years now? Not even a scratch. The jacks are tight, the knobs turn smoothly, the switch feels good, the XLR out has never had problems. There's a reason the BDDI gets so much love.

They say right on the Tech 21 BDDI website that you can run power amps with it... I'd say why not give it a shot? I've used the 1/4" out to go straight to a recording console, I use the XLR every Sunday to go to the house board at church. Going to a power amp isn't much different. After all, power amps just take the signal they're fed and, well... amplify it.

5sg.

[PierreCA]

Thank so much Slaerts and 5SG. By the way though this might not be as important, what my band plays is post-rock/experimental/indie.

Sp far the sansamp is looking good and winning but I still think I need an amp.

What Slaerts said before it exactly what I wanted to do but then 5SG nailed it with my main concern... what will the sound consist of? Will they bring monitors? I want to control my sound. I've been playing live for a long time now but always depend on 'chance' just like 5SG mentioned. It's always just luck, if they bring a good amp then my basses will sound good though they both are extremely reliable and have wonderful tone if the amp is bad I'm screwed.

So which amp would you recomend I buy if I were to find one? Over here in DR I doubt I can find something but I haven't given up. I tested an acoustic head the other day, it lost tone clearness past 5 (sounded too overdriven for my taste).

Again thanks so much for your help. Right now as you can see I'm a mess and I cannot make up my mind as to what it is I really need. I have around 700 dollars to spend. The only REAL thing that I KNOW I will need and love is the M9 because I have tried it before.. it's just superb. Besides that I don't know what I should get, so far TH or sansamp are my best choices.

The controversy: DI + M9 VS. AMP (doesn't matter if it's a head/cab or combo)


EDIT: Btw Slaerts, do you play in only one place or many different places? Do those venues hace their own sound all the time or does that change depending on who is working on the sound or who organizes the event?

[fivestringgecko]

Originally Posted by PierreCA

So which amp would you recomend I buy if I were to find one? Over here in DR I doubt I can find something but I haven't given up. I tested an acoustic head the other day, it lost tone clearness past 5 (sounded too overdriven for my taste).

It really depends on what's available to you in your area. Do you have any local music shops or will you have to order from someplace? What does the used market look like where you are? With $700, the used market would probably be the way to go... It may take a little diligence and research on your part, but used can be a good way to find a deal.

Also, telling us a little more about your band will help us make a recommendation as well. I assume you're looking for something you could use for practice AND live shows? What kind of instrumentation in your band? Do you get LOUD at practices? What kind of practice space? Do you have any typical venues that you play? etc etc.

I'll also throw another idea at you: There's no need to spend all the extra $$$ on a fancy preamp DI like a Sansamp if you're going to get the M9 anyway. Chances are that with all the distortions/drives it includes, you'll find something at least close to a Sansamp. A simple straightforward DI like a Whirlwind Standard DI would work fine, and is significantly cheaper. Run the M9 into the DI, DI goes out to your amp and the house. Done.

With some luck and searching on the used market (if there IS one where you are), you just might be able to find a decent amp, a regular DI and your M9 for about your $700 mark.

5sg.

[slaerts]

Originally Posted by PierreCA

EDIT: Btw Slaerts, do you play in only one place or many different places? Do those venues hace their own sound all the time or does that change depending on who is working on the sound or who organizes the event?

Mate, these days I'm playing praise and worship in a church setting and occasionally I do stuff for the school I work for. In a previous life I did covers bands and a indie/acoustic rock thing.
In my current situation I play a SWR Baby Baby Blue with a mojo sonic 1x10 ext cab. Its only 160 watts through 2 x 10inch speakers, but I always have the option of going to the PA I mostly play in one church. Almost all my covers gigs were band brings their own PA but we knew that up front I had a big amp and lots of speakers and did not use the pa. The indi thing always had a house PA with a sound guy supplied by the venues we went to and I DI'd straight to the pa from my gk 700RB.
With the new info you supplied I'd strongly recomend an amp and cab. I had a shuttle 6.0 I bought off the classifieds here they are good clear sounding amps and are switchable between USA power and the 240 volt power we have in Australia. I found it needed something like a sansamp to colour it/warm the tone up a bit as it is very transparent. Most amps these days have a built in DI.
If I was still doing indie stuff I'd always have a sansamp or something similar (one of the others I mentioned or aphex bass exciter or mxr di would do the trick and are a bit cheaper) as a back up.
I love my mojo sonic cab too - very light and good sounding.

[jmeyers44]

The rig that has been working very well for me is plugging my bass into an Avalon U5 preamp/DI and using in ear monitors. The Avalon is extremely clean and has very musical preset EQ settings.

[PierreCA]

Thank everyone for your suggestions!
5SG I like your idea very much and I was thinking about that... just today I went to record bass for my band's song and I used the SAME ultrabass behringer head and cab (ugly stuff live) with my friend's M13 and oh god.. just the boost comp made my day. Honestly I'm so surprised that horrible amp could be fixed with just the boost comp.

You might be totally right.
About my band? We play in medium sized venues (some with horrible acoustic) and we play in our friends house (small room). I don't like playing loud, I like to take care of my ears. I don't think I need a super loud amp. We play indie/post-rock/experimental basically though we call it post-indie :P it's a little ambient at times and in those moments I play keys (midi keyboard etc) instead of bass.

Ummm I really appreciate all your help. I saw a hartke kickback amp (100 watts or 120 watts) that was in some emarket webside and it was about 217 dollars. I found it cheap but I didn't test that amp out (though i called the guy so much to see if I could reach him and nothing).

What kind of amp should I go for? I don't need a super big amp because I don't really play in big venues. I'm thinking that I could buy the M9 and some decent amp like you said, 5SG and then get a DI.

When you say a 'cheap DI' (the whirlwind one you recommend), is it good? Is it still necessary if I get a good cab and head?

Thanks so much guys!

Another question, what decent amp should I go for right now?

I was reading right here on forums that buying combo amp is dumb because later on you gotta sell it all while it's better to get a head and then a cab etc... This is an endless discussion really because right now I DON'T need a cab and I will not need that power plus I can mic the amp and I'm sure it's gonna sound just how I like it. If that ugly ultrabass behringer could, then I'm sure the hartke, fender or an ampeg will sound incredible.