New IEM on the way, Nady PEM-500, any experience with them?

steveksux · #1 01-19-2011, 05:26 PM

Singer in my one band has been "a little off", the monitors haven't really been loud enough, so he couldn't really hear himself. He picked up an IEM, and WOW, what a difference, he's sounding MUCH better, in tune...

So I figured I'd look into them. Found a deal on the Nady PEM-500, wondering if anybody had any experience with them?

I'm planning on running it in mono, loading one input from the PA (either a monitor mix, or the main mix, I'd like to pick up the other instruments as well, so I'm thinking the main mix will be tried first), and the other input will be my bass.

Using the main mix gives me the accurate vocal mix so I can blend properly, get to monitor the main mix as well to help run the board.

My biggest concern is the earphones that come with it, I bet they suck. I have Atomic Bass earbuds that I use to practice with, and they sound pretty good, they also block a decent amount of outside sound, so I may give them a try as well, if the Nady earbuds suck too bad.

What do you guys think of my game plan? Suggestions welcomed if I'm attempting something stupid.

Longer term, I'll be selling my floor monitors to the other guys that still want to us them, to pay for the Nady, and so I don't have to schlep them around anymore. Also thinking of downsizing the bass rig. Need to keep something around for sub gigs where I don't go through the pa.

Randy

modulusman · #2 01-19-2011, 10:10 PM

Well it was cheap. Might work fine but Nady as a brand is pretty bottom of the barrel.

steveksux · #3 01-21-2011, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

Well it was cheap. Might work fine but Nady as a brand is pretty bottom of the barrel.

I had a nady wireless before I got the X-wire, and later X2, and it was a very good unit. Good sound quality, sturdy build, very low noise. Some of their stuff is great, but they make stuff at all price points.

Randy

modulusman · #4 01-21-2011, 09:45 PM

The shure PSM200 is one of the better cheap units out there and it costs almost twice as much as your Nady.

steveksux · #5 01-22-2011, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

The shure PSM200 is one of the better cheap units out there and it costs almost twice as much as your Nady.

They make wireless units at all price points, some fine units, so your comment about Nady products being "bottom of the barrel" is incorrect.

Meanwhile, that shows clearly that they have the expertise in wireless technology, companding, therefore compression and limiting. All the ingredients are there. No reason they can't make a high quality IEM.

They haven't put out a lot of IEM products yet, apparently just getting into that market.

Do you have any actual experience with the PEM-500, or or any IEMs, or any actual Nady products, or any actual useful information to add?

Randy

modulusman · #6 01-22-2011, 09:15 AM

Yeah I own a ShurePSM200 a PSM400 and an Audio-technica M3. I use to own a Nady wireless for my bass guitar. Sounded thin compared to when I was using a cord. I now own a Shure wireless that I bought used 10 years ago that sounds just as good as when I use a cord. Nady is bottom of the barrel as far as price points they don't have anything high end. http://www.musiciansfriend.com/nady

MNAirHead · #7 01-23-2011, 01:14 AM

I spent tons and tons of time researching this... Shure PSM 200

steveksux · #8 01-23-2011, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

I spent tons and tons of time researching this... Shure PSM 200

That was my next choice, actually. Found a better deal on the Nady, but liked the PSM 200 better. The transmixer looks very useful, mix vocals/bass right from the front panel.

What's your experience been like with earbuds? I'm thinking will have to spend decent amount of $ to reproduce a bass (5 string) with anything resembling fidelity.

Not going to spring for custom molds at this point, wondering if any of the universal fits at reasonable price points work, or just a waste of time/money. Maybe the Ultimate Ears?

Randy

MNAirHead · #9 01-23-2011, 04:20 PM

In full disclosure.. I also use a Rolls PM350 in conjunction.. allows a bit of flexiblity and control over the ins/outs.. they're super cheap if you look out.

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Ear Buds...
If just getting going you don't need to spend a ton... the key is to get them to fit very tight.

I've played some Ipod type buds that sounded equal (or better) than my pro IEM.

Kind of the entry level of pro is IE-10.. not necessary up front.

Reproducing bass is a tougher one.. to really do this you need to get them properly pro fit by an audiologist.

Start practicing with it at home to get yourself used to not feeling a rumble.

Tim

steveksux · #10 01-23-2011, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MNAirHead

In full disclosure.. I also use a Rolls PM350 in conjunction.. allows a bit of flexiblity and control over the ins/outs.. they're super cheap if you look out.

-----

Good info, was thinking about something like that. Seperate mic input with passthrough to give me phantom power for my condenser vocal mic, plus I can boost my own mic in my mix if needed, an input to add/adjust the bass signal as needed, and something to mix in the mains feed as well to pick up the rest of the band. That sounds like it may do the trick. Was looking at small minimixers also. Peavey PV6, other 4 input mixers, down the road if I need them.

My first inclination is to just take the main mix so I get an accurate reference for blending harmonies, a monitor mix with too much of me could result in too little of me in the mains, and I'd never know, it sounds loud enough in my IEM. We typically don't run a sound man to fix that stuff on the fly. Then just add in my bass signal. But would be nice to have the option of boosting my vocals if needed without running to the board to adjust. That looks like it might do the trick. The PEM-500 only has 2 inputs that can be mixed in mono, but doesn't appear to have left/right volumes, only a combined one. Run the system in mono and it'll sum the inputs panned to center, essentially.

Quote:

Ear Buds...
If just getting going you don't need to spend a ton... the key is to get them to fit very tight.

I've played some Ipod type buds that sounded equal (or better) than my pro IEM.

Kind of the entry level of pro is IE-10.. not necessary up front.

Reproducing bass is a tougher one.. to really do this you need to get them properly pro fit by an audiologist.

Have had good luck with Atomic Bass earbuds, I can get good seal and good bass at home on mp3 player, and use them to practice on Tascam mp3 trainer. They do a reasonable job of sound isolation, but in normal daily use. Not sure they've got enough isolation to block out enough high decibel stage volume to allow me to keep the volume at reasonable levels in the ears on stage.

Quote:

Start practicing with it at home to get yourself used to not feeling a rumble.

Tim

Not an issue, yet anyway. I'll still need some sort of amp for stage monitoring for everyone else to hear the bass, myself and the lead singer are the only ones that will be using IEMs to start with. That may solve the immediate LF response of the earbuds if I go with cheaper ones, as bleed through from the amp will fill in the low end for me to some extent. I think they don't block low freqs as effectively as high ones. But if you have experience along those lines, I'd take that over my theories, at least until I try them out in the real world. Hopefully get the unit next week sometime.

What buds have you tried so far, besides those?

Randy

MNAirHead · #11 01-24-2011, 06:38 AM

Rolls & Stage Mixing
I own some small mixers.. I'd still consider moving up to a true stage designed box.. I think I paid $40 for mine.. it's the older version.. I can go out to a stage amp.

The deal with mini mixers is they're designed for another purpose and too many buttons for stage... the rolls stuff has pass through (and a small size)

When performing I do everything I can to be the ultimate band mate and musician -- this includes not dorking with a sound guy who may not have time (or gear) for individual mixes.. this is where the Rolls Box shines.

The other bonus is that you can go hardwire in the events that wireless is overkil (or fails).
-----

Mono...
Run it in mono and save yourself headaches.

----

Earbuds...
They're not as rugged.. I commonly loose them before they wear out.

My favorite value earbuds are the mid range Phillips.. I've tried at least 50 models.

I'm hooked into them 10 hours a day or so.

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Stage Sound.
If you're investing in the gear --- let the other guys figure out how they're going to hear you (better stage monitors or they can go IEM).

You're treading on tough ground as IEM works best when everyone is on it OR if you're playing with true pros that only care about FOH and just need a little to lock in....

At most, I'll bring a 1-10 solid state amp --- and turn it off.. the guys look at it .. laugh.. then say "sounds great".. I'll then turn around and chuckle as the volume is off.

-----

It's a totally different style of playing live.. your ears will thank you.. you'll sound tons better in FOH... less gear to haul.

Tim

MNAirHead · #12 01-24-2011, 06:39 AM

I'd keep an eye out for MAudio IE10.. they can be found very inexpensive (used) Shure foam tips will fit

Keithwah · #13 01-30-2011, 02:30 PM

The Nady stuff is ok, but you'll experience more static drifting (little bursts of static) in smaller to larger metro areas. As others have said, they are tin sounding. Best value is to go ut and buy some Koss "The Plug" earbuds for them. Around $20 or less (amazon has some great deals at times) and they handle buttloads of spl. They are not the most hi-fi sounding set, but for thelevels you probably want to play at, these offer the best bang for the buck. Spend much more than that on ear buds and you should have bought the Shure or the AT. Much nicer and cleaner and more reliable in finding clear channels to lock onto. Both Shure and AT sound much more hi-fi. The Sennheiser's are very nice but for the dollar I'd go Shure or AT.
Carvin's IEM stuff I think is made by Nady, or it might as well be. I've used all 5, Nady, Carvin, Sennheiser, Shure and AT. I like the sound of the AT, but the reliability of the Shure is very good.

steveksux · #14 01-31-2011, 12:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithwah

The Nady stuff is ok, but you'll experience more static drifting (little bursts of static) in smaller to larger metro areas. As others have said, they are tin sounding. Best value is to go ut and buy some Koss "The Plug" earbuds for them. Around $20 or less (amazon has some great deals at times) and they handle buttloads of spl. They are not the most hi-fi sounding set, but for thelevels you probably want to play at, these offer the best bang for the buck.

From one of the pics I saw, it comes with Koss buds, not sure which model.

Quote:

Spend much more than that on ear buds and you should have bought the Shure or the AT. Much nicer and cleaner and more reliable in finding clear channels to lock onto. Both Shure and AT sound much more hi-fi. The Sennheiser's are very nice but for the dollar I'd go Shure or AT.
Carvin's IEM stuff I think is made by Nady, or it might as well be. I've used all 5, Nady, Carvin, Sennheiser, Shure and AT. I like the sound of the AT, but the reliability of the Shure is very good.

The other units are way more expensive, so I've got some leeway on decent buds. I can return the unit if it doesn't work well, and the good buds can be used on a better unit, so its not money wasted.

I'd rather not rule out the Nady unit based on crappy buds being the problem, rather make sure the wireless is the problem. Many earbuds are pretty bass defiicient, until you get into the good ones, given the price point, the stock Nady/Koss buds are probably cheap, which is cool, I'd rather not pay any more for the stock buds than I have to, going to most likely replace them with something better anyway. If I could, I'd buy a unit without any buds, pick my own.

I have some buds I use with my mp3, good bass response, so that'll tell me if the unit is tinny or if the problem is cheap buds. They may likely not have enough isoltion to use on stage, but they'll give me enough to go on regarding sound quality of the unit. If those sound good, I'll try investing in some decent buds to get more isolation.

I'm not getting custom IEMs anytime soon, but would spend $150-$200 on decent buds to make this work.

Randy

F-Clef-Jef · #15 02-02-2011, 10:39 AM

I've been using FutureSonics M5's, very clean, loads of bass (if you want it), sound just great.

Have you considered going with a hardwired setup? Sound is far superior to wireless, especially in the low frequency ranges. I have my headphone cable piggybacked with my bass cable, using a really nice Rane studio headphone amp. Sound is clean, as loud as I want, and NEVER crackly from interference.

steveksux · #16 02-02-2011, 03:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F-Clef-Jef

I've been using FutureSonics M5's, very clean, loads of bass (if you want it), sound just great.

Have you considered going with a hardwired setup? Sound is far superior to wireless, especially in the low frequency ranges. I have my headphone cable piggybacked with my bass cable, using a really nice Rane studio headphone amp. Sound is clean, as loud as I want, and NEVER crackly from interference.

The nady unit has headphone jack on front I can use to test the difference btw wireless and wired.

I'm also considering getting the rolls pm351 to allow me to get my own mix easily, I could have mains, my mic, my bass in sep channels, all levels at my fingertips. Great for middle of song, can't run to board, just goose my mic if needed.

If the nady doesn't work well, I have 30 day return, and can conceivably use the rolls pm351 to go wired for the time being until I find a good deal on the shure 200. Make sure I like the IEM concept for sure before investing in more cash. I'll have to hook up my comp/limiter to make sure I don't blow out my ears on feedback with the rolls.

Will definitely be using the headphone jack to compare buds, without the distortion/freq response issues of wireless confusing things. Hoping my current buds (atomic bass) will give enough isolation, bass response to work, expect the buds with the nady to suck hard.

Looking at some deals on UE triple fi 10s if the atomic bass don't work. That would be if the nady works. Not sure i'm looking to spend that much on TF10's, plus $600 on the shure at this point. Not sure its worth it to me.

Randy

steveksux · #17 02-02-2011, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Keithwah

The Nady stuff is ok, but you'll experience more static drifting (little bursts of static) in smaller to larger metro areas. As others have said, they are tin sounding. Best value is to go ut and buy some Koss "The Plug" earbuds for them. Around $20 or less (amazon has some great deals at times) and they handle buttloads of spl. They are not the most hi-fi sounding set, but for thelevels you probably want to play at, these offer the best bang for the buck.

Curious if you've heard the nady with decent buds. At that price point the stock buds are going to be crap. I have a hard time believing $20 buds sound "good"...

Quote:

Spend much more than that on ear buds and you should have bought the Shure or the AT. Much nicer and cleaner and more reliable in finding clear channels to lock onto. Both Shure and AT sound much more hi-fi. The Sennheiser's are very nice but for the dollar I'd go Shure or AT.
Carvin's IEM stuff I think is made by Nady, or it might as well be. I've used all 5, Nady, Carvin, Sennheiser, Shure and AT. I like the sound of the AT, but the reliability of the Shure is very good.

Static is annoying, but I can live with that (maybe, see how bad it is). Hiss when nobody is playing is even less a problem. Once you start playing, you drown out the hiss mostly. So I'm not worried about that either.

Its not like the response cuts off at 50Hz, and there's nothing below that, that's likely the 3db down point. I can eq a little extra low end to compensate, or bassy earbuds can do it for me. Most headphones, certainly bass cabs, don't go much below 50 Hz anyway with usable output, so its not as big a deal as you might think. You are hearing mostly harmonics, not so much fundamentals.

So may be satisfactory for my needs. Earplugs are great for bass playing, but having trouble singing with them. Rather go with IEMs to get the volume levels down only with vocals included for singing.

And if it doesn't work, the nady goes back. I only get the rolls pm351 and decent buds if the nady works for me. So I'm not risking a lot of cash, not planning on spending a fortune on good buds AND $600 for the Shure psm200. I'll spend money on buds if the nady is acceptable. Not even willing to spend $600 on a wireless IEM solution. If I find a good deal on a closeout later assuming the nady doesn't work out, I'll reconsider at that point.

Also considering the galaxy 1100 if the nady doesn't fly. Its only $400ish. If I like the way the Nady works, as far as hearing myself well, but can't stand the nady's distortion/hiss/dropouts/etc, it might be tempting.

Randy