new to live sound - some questions

ack · #1 02-08-2009, 01:56 PM

Hello,

Looking to see if someone can point me in the right direction for some answers. I've seen searching the Internet for "band stage gear" and there's almost too much information to process. Not really sure how much of it actually pertains to my situation. I thought I'd try TB to get some leads on the best (and quickest way) to solve some of my needs.

Quick Background:
My son and some friends have formed a 4-piece rock band (bass, 2 guitars, drums) and they've played a few coffee houses, bars, garages, etc. and are now being asked to play larger venues (community center, school) in a week or so.

I've got bare-bones live sound equipment that I've been letting them use:
1- Passive 10-channel Mixer (w/ Phantom Power)
1 - 300W Powered Monitor (used as a PA for vocals)
2 - Vocal mics (Shure/Samson), stands, xlr cables, etc.

In the venues where there is no house setup, I've been
running a few power strips from the outlets and plugging the guitar amps, bass amp, pedal boards, mixer and monitor directly into them.

I know that I'm playing with fire here, so this is why I'm writing this. I'm concerned about the power situation and possibly damaging some equipment. I'd like to get either a power conditioner or something that will allow me to power up the on-stage gear from one rollaway cabinet. Possibly have the mixer sit right on top.

I realize that I need to get a personal monitor or two (so they can hear their vocals in the larger venues), but I think the power issue might be more urgent.

Any suggestions on where I can turn for some quick soutions?

Money is also an object here, so I need to focus on getting them some equipment that might help them progress a bit without breaking the bank.

Any useful suggestions or constructive criticisms would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.
Steve

JustDavid · #2 02-08-2009, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack

(bass, 2 guitars, drums)
1 - 300W Powered Monitor (used as a PA for vocals)
2 - Vocal mics (Shure/Samson), stands, xlr cables, etc.

In the venues where there is no house setup, I've been
running a few power strips from the outlets and plugging the guitar amps, bass amp, pedal boards, mixer and monitor directly into them.

I know that I'm playing with fire here, so this is why I'm writing this. I'm concerned about the power situation and possibly damaging some equipment. I'd like to get either a power conditioner or something that will allow me to power up the on-stage gear from one rollaway cabinet. Possibly have the mixer sit right on top.

Steve, I applaud your caution but I think you are putting too much weight to the power situation.

The cabinet for power is called a Distro. Good idea, but I don't feel you need to go nearly as deep as you express.

I do suggest you get a 'mouser'; a test device that plugs into a wall socket & has 3 neon lamps that tell you if the outlet is wired properly.

I built a "diet Distro", basically consisting of a noise filter (optional; 'found' a 15 amp one at work) & a GFCI outlet (to my mind, NOT optional), a 20 foot 12 gauge power cord & several protected outlets. I also distribute ALL sound power onstage from this, with tested & large gauge cords.

I'm running a lot more power through this than you will be. Few issues so far, but they are:
- a building providing a strongly-loaded circuit for us; tripped the breaker during soundcheck. Out comes the 80' 12 gauge extension cord & found a better circuit.
- GFCI tripped when guitarist's beer fell onto Distro.

ack · #3 02-08-2009, 02:48 PM

David,

Thanks. The Distro is the device I was thinking about. In my searches, I failed to used the term "Power Distribution" or "PD". After your reply, I was able to get a lot more information about them, thanks. I have a mouser in the workshop...I'll add it to the boys' equipment case. GFCI has saved a lot of bacon in its day.

Thanks for easing my mind a bit regarding the power concerns...I'd much rather soak the money into another Powered Monitor and/or some Personal Monitors for these guys before their next show. I may be handy enough to build my own Distro - we'll see.

I really appreciate your quick and helpful response.

Cheers,

JustDavid · #4 02-08-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ack

David,

Thanks. The Distro is the device I was thinking about. In my searches, I failed to used the term "Power Distribution" or "PD". After your reply, I was able to get a lot more information about them, thanks. I have a mouser in the workshop...I'll add it to the boys' equipment case. GFCI has saved a lot of bacon in its day.

Thanks for easing my mind a bit regarding the power concerns...I'd much rather soak the money into another Powered Monitor and/or some Personal Monitors for these guys before their next show. I may be handy enough to build my own Distro - we'll see.

I really appreciate your quick and helpful response.

Cheers,

Whatever you build, I recommend you have a licensed electrician check it out before you put it in service. And unplug it when you or the band are not there. These are arse-covering steps that hopefully will prove a waste of time & energy. Hopefully.

Next step for David's Diet Distro is to build a small panel that has a breaker panel & can plug into a range outlet (what we ususllay see onstage in these parts).

I failed to address worry about "octopus building". It's best not to, true, but I'm with the benefits of having all gear on the same phase on a tested outlet.

Enjoy, & use thick wire!

modulusman · #5 02-08-2009, 03:16 PM

You don't need a distro or a power conditioner. I doubt you need more than one 20 amp service. Your money would be better spent as you said,another PA speaker oe else monitors.

**baba** · #6 02-09-2009, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by modulusman

You don't need a distro or a power conditioner. I doubt you need more than one 20 amp service. Your money would be better spent as you said,another PA speaker oe else monitors.

What he said. Keep in mind, modern amplification also has internal protection at least equal to whatever power "conditioner" you may buy. Stay with the power strips you have.

RicPlaya · #7 02-14-2009, 12:50 PM

You should be fine. A little PA and some cabs on the same circut is not a big deal. In fact I prefer this because sometimes if your bass/guitar cab is plugged into a different circut then the PA sometimes I get shocks off the mic. I use a Furman power conditioner or a good power strip, that's all you will need if you want to be safe.

cdawzrd · #8 02-14-2009, 02:47 PM

Power distribution is something you worry about much later in the game, IMO. You only have one powered speaker and a mixer! I've been running larger rigs off of several good, heavy-gauge power strips, without any problems (as long as I'm not playing in a 70 year old barn...)

Is your son's band just running vocals through the PA, or other instruments (bass/keys/etc)?

What models of gear do you currently own? (mixer, powered speaker)

If I were in your place, I would probably get another identical powered speaker (assuming the first is performing well) to use as the PA mains, and then maybe a small powered monitor to use for vocal monitoring.

If you consider going down the unpowered-speaker route, you also might want to invest in a so-called "mixer rack case" which is a short rolling rack case (8u-10u) with an angled rack panel at the top you can drop your mixing board into (assuming your mixing board can have rack ears attached!) This way, you can drop in a power conditioner (Furman or the like), maybe an EQ and compressor, and the power amp. You can get by off of a single power amp if you need to, should you choose to go that route, i.e. one channel powers the mains, one powers the monitors.