Noob question - live gear

Rimshot · #1 10-26-2009, 12:45 AM

I'm on the verge of buying a bass, amp and cab for club gigs. (hard rock, rock, alternative stuff)

I've been reading a bunch of FAQs and threads about amps, cabs, DI and the like. Which, while endlessly informative and entertaining, have done little more than confuse me.

Now, I know it's all very subjective, but I respect and value the opinions of those here who have gone before me, so I come begging for your kind assistance.

I imagine my dream set-up would be a Stingray thru a vintage Ampeg into an 8x10, but since that's FAR beyond my financial reach, I'm wondering...what is a solid, affordable set up suitable for clubs, most all of which will have PA support. I read in one thread that since any DI is usualy pre-eq, the amp and cab are really mostly for my own stage reference/monitoring.

So basically, if the (two) guitarists are typical (Marshall and Mesa..4x10...etc.) how big do I need to go to hear myself and how much, if at all, does it really matter about WHAT. It seems like I should get as little as possible for on stage and get a kick-a$$ DI (SansAmp?) and let the sound guy worry about where I sit in the mix FOH

I hope this makes sense and I hope you don't mind helping out a brother of the lower register.

Thanks

Revvv · #2 10-26-2009, 01:06 AM

What are you using when you practice? Can you hear yourself, and can the band hear you? If you are just getting started, you can use what you practice with, and use a DI to the board. That will allow you to use your bass rig for a personal monitor on the low end of things. If the rest of the band needs more of what you have, all the need to do is ask the sound guy.

As a general rule, you would be fine (more than fine by many) with a 410 cab and about 300 watts.

Rimshot · #3 10-26-2009, 01:12 AM

Right now, all I have is a Peavey Max 112 (35 watts) and I have to drive it pretty hard to be heard in a group setting (GREAT for practicing alone)

ItsMichaelYeah · #4 10-26-2009, 12:17 PM

what's Your Budget? That usually helps narrow alot of it down.
Do you know if the clubs your going to be playing at will DI you?

Rimshot · #5 10-26-2009, 05:05 PM

I'm trying to keep the rig >$1K. Even less would be great, but if I go 'NEW', that seems to be about how much a head and cab would be. I'd say 80% will be taking a DI. The rest won't sound go no matter what.

ItsMichaelYeah · #6 10-26-2009, 06:07 PM

if you go used you might be able to get a 810/ ampeg head.

if potability is also an issue id say go with a 4x10 from either ampeg, gk, or markbass

**Stumbo** · #7 10-27-2009, 01:32 AM

What kind of bass are you playing now? Does it have to be replaced?

What kind of transportation do you have? How much will it carry?

Since most buy not all clubs have PA support, getting an expensive D.I., IMO, is probably not the way you want to go right now.

Where are you located? Have you checked Craigslist or TB's classifieds yet? There are a lot of great deals available now.

I also suggest you fill out your Profile so we all know what equipment you have. It's helpful in getting proper recommendations.

ShadowRichie · #8 10-27-2009, 08:19 PM

Ashdown ABM 500 through a 4x10 is my rig, cut throught the mix easily and it can also be DI'd after you've EQ'ed.

I got mine used and it was less than half the retail price

GregShadoan · #9 10-27-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumbo

What kind of transportation do you have? How much will it carry?
.

LOL, yeah, you wouldn't want an 8-10, if you would have spend 15000 for a new ride. Your not gonna be strapping that on to a bike.

But seriously. Your instincts are good. SVT is a great rig. I have used them for almost 40 years. Currently I have a 73 cab, and an 04 head. Great bass amp.

JimmyM · #10 10-27-2009, 11:35 PM

Any amp + a VT pedal will get you dangerously close to an SVT sound.

Rimshot · #11 10-28-2009, 03:28 AM

Thanks for all the info so far! You guys are great.

How many watts will I need too keep up and hear myself on stage?

And, yes, an 8x10 would be too big for my little Hyundai.

JimmyM · #12 10-28-2009, 03:49 AM

300w is often talked about as sort of a median wattage. Some bands you can play with much less wattage and be fine (I often use a 25w tube amp with my regular band, and we're not what I'd consider "quiet"). Some bands might require more wattage, although I find that the only ones who truly need more than that are in doom bands trying to make people puke. But I get a lot of crap from the high-watters when I say that so I keep it to myself. It's generally better to have too much power than too little, but if you're going for a small to medium cab, you're not going to be able to use much more power than that in most cabs in your price range anyway.

Aarix · #13 10-29-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JimmyM

300w is often talked about as sort of a median wattage. ... although I find that the only ones who truly need more than that are in doom bands trying to make people puke.

I usually run a 600W amp, but the thing to consider (and I'm sure Jimmy knows this) is that wattage is not the important thing and it doesn't scale. For me to get twice as loud as Jimmy's 300W, I'd need 3,000W. Nobody runs a rig like that...

30W is half as loud as 300W is half as loud as 3000W. So basically, Jimmy's right. You probably want to be somewhere in the middle.

Speaker sensitivity on the other hand... that's where you can get some real volume.

Marley's Ghost · #14 10-29-2009, 07:45 AM

The Carvin SBX210 is a lightweight and powerful stack that will give you 500 watts@ 4ohms for $769 + shippping with the flexibility of adding another cab in the future.

http://www.carvinguitars.com/bassamps/prostacks.php

godofthunder59 · #15 10-29-2009, 07:51 AM

Most of my stuff is vintage British tube with a little Ampeg thrown in so it's difficult for me to comment on new stuff.For under 1k you could get a Ampeg V4B and a 4x10 that will give you great vintage tone and be enough to be heard on stage plus fit in your car. Also older Peavey Mk IIIs and IIVs are good heads and can be gotten for a nice price.

Jehos · #16 10-29-2009, 09:20 AM

You might also look into higher-wattage combos. Eden Metro, SWR Super Redhead, Markbass CMD-210, Ampeg BA300, that sort of thing.

Most of my bass playing career has been through amps like that. If you get a good 300W-350W combo you'll be heard fine in practice and you can hear yourself fine on stage. Most of those combos have the ability to add another 8ohm speaker cab and boost the output to around 500W-600W, which is enough to carry most small clubs. My current setup is a Markbass CMD-210 with a 15" extension cab, and it can hold its own against all but the biggest guitar stacks. It's definitely on the expensive side though.

For $1000, you should be able to find a good used bass (Stingray, MIM Fender, Warwick, etc.) and a decent 300W combo. Especially if you don't care if the stuff is a little dinged up from stage use--basses with "beauty marks" can play and sound just fine, they're just not in immaculate condition, which is what you want. They're cheaper that way.

groove pump · #17 10-30-2009, 05:56 PM

You've got some shopping to do!

Bass players can usually be happy with a 4x10 for just about any job, but if your car is as limited as my Corolla, you might need one or two smaller cabs instead. I got rid of my 4x10 for a pair of 2x10's and haven't missed the larger box - I have an option to use a big or small rig which has been rather handy.

Lots of heads have an okay DI, so you may not need to worry about getting a separate one and you may also play shows where a soundman already has DI's of his own ready to go. The Sansamp BDDI is popular, but there are others including the Countryman and the Bassbone from Radial Engineering - I'm actually looking into one of these right now.

Lots of decent heads out there including some not-so-glamorous labels like Peavey. You'd be smart to avoid getting hung up on a certain name just so that you don't overlook some real gems. I just stumbled upon a killer head by Yorkville (XS400H) that I'd never heard of before, but it was impressive. Expect any head to give you power and tone shaping in the form of an eq, but don't expect too many other quality bells and/or whistles. Effects, compressors, etc. are usually better performers as separate specific units (rack or pedal).

I got into a preamp/power amp rig a couple years back and it was surprisingly cheap - the power of positive shopping I guess. I paid around $500 total for both my Ampeg pre and older 1,400 watt power amp and until something dies on me (or serious G.A.S. sets in), I have terrific tone and all the horsepower I can use. In your case, you might actually spot a simple preamp and a smaller power amp that can give you sound and plenty of juice (let's say 500-800 watts) for less money than some heads with less power. The Bassbone I'm checking out is a two channel preamp in a floor pedal that also has decent features including an effects loop. The Sansamp can fill the role of a preamp and there's even the Bass Pod. Just an option to be aware of.

IntrepidCellist · #18 10-30-2009, 06:29 PM

I ran a Line 6 LD300 for my first year and a half of gigging. Loud enough for rehearsal and to run small gigs without PA support, and the DI is post-EQ and post amp models so your FOH sound will sound like your amp. Used, you can find those for $300-450, easy. The SVT sound DI'ed sounds fantastically authentic... that was my recorded tone for our album.

Nowadays I run an Eden WT400 into a D210XLT. Since I bought used, total rig cost was around $800 and there's quite a bit more clean depth than the LD300. You can snag an Eden D410XLT (the old touring standard 4x10 cab) for $300-400 these days on Craigslist, and those are fantastic cabs.

Like Jimmy says though, a good loud cab and a decent head + a VT bass pedal will get you 90% of the way to that Ampeg sound... and if you have a DI on your head, your VT bass sound will be out front anyways, so it's the best of both worlds.

Munjibunga · #19 10-31-2009, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revvv

What are you using when you practice? Can you hear yourself, and can the band hear you? If you are just getting started, you can use what you practice with, and use a DI to the board. That will allow you to use your bass rig for a personal monitor on the low end of things. If the rest of the band needs more of what you have, all the need to do is ask the sound guy.

As a general rule, you would be fine (more than fine by many) with a 410 cab and about 300 watts.

That would possibly suffice, but I'd go at least 500 watts, if only for the headroom.

Rimshot · #20 11-03-2009, 12:34 AM

Thank you all for your input and guidance. As an update for your reading entertainment, here's what I'm considering. The following list is all new gear, but I have been scouring the FS pages here for stuff.

Amps (in no particular order):

Peavey Tour VB-2
Traynor YBA200
Ashdown MAG 300H EVO II
Peavey Tour 700
Bugera BVP5500
Warwick Pro Fet 3.2
Acoustic B600H

The downside is, that I won't be able to play-test all of these, so again I turn to your superior knowledge and experience.

Additionally, I think I'll end up getting either a 4x10 or two 2x10s (for transport ease), but I'm fuzzy on multiple cab ohmage and how many watts the cab should be rated at (more or less or about the same as the amp?)