Not loud enough thru FOH

[bertbassplayer]

Originally Posted by jaywa

And of course, they have to have the "ear" for it before either the training or the technology.

Yeah unfortunately I might have to deal with someone tonight who has the training, technology but no ear.

[bassman1185]

Having an understanding of and interest in music is also a plus.

[RicPlaya]

Originally Posted by bertbassplayer

There's def something to be said for proper training vs technology.

Agreed

I never seen any of these preprogrammable baords because I would never endorse one. Running live sound is an artform in itself. How the bassplayer community chases that sweet tone, I know live sound guys do the same. I can see why the bennefits of this board for the church, easy to use plug and play. I would find a way to turn the bass channel up, goto who is in charge and ask. Download the owners manual of the board so you can prove you know how to do it.

[rick1906]

Would a clean boost between the preamp and DI work? If so, I could just toss it in the gig bag when I use other amps.

[fokof]

Originally Posted by rick1906

Would a clean boost between the preamp and DI work? If so, I could just toss it in the gig bag when I use other amps.

The problem is probably due in part by the fact that your sound always changes.
If you change gain or EQ , it's gonna afect not only your sound , but the overall mix of the whole band.

Why can't you send a pre DI signal ?
This way you could change amp every night without having to worry about the FOH


PS ; I was sure it was one of your band's girlfriend....
I really don't know much about churches , they are all transformed into condo's around here....

[rick1906]

I guess I could send a pre-EQ signal and not worry about it. The problem is that in doing so, I lose tonal flexibility. The EQ on the board is currently set flat. Since I'm more knowledgeable on EQ'ing bass, I usually EQ on the amp, and run my wireless unit during sound check to figure out what sounds good.

Also, I just picked up a new Thunderfunk a week ago. Although I'm still getting the hang of it, I can definitely hear how the timbre and enhance knobs can be used for a really good bass tone. Pre-EQ DI defeats the purpose of these knobs.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by RicPlaya

Agreed

I never seen any of these preprogrammable baords because I would never endorse one.

They are a godsend, believe you me. One of those digital boards will replace a good 2-3 large racks worth of EQ's and other effects. And on a lot of the shows I do, we have several singers come on and off and they all need different things, so it's really great to be able to punch up everyone's settings within a second. Of course, that doesn't mean you don't need to tweak it once it's set, and it's no excuse for not being able to move a fader.

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by rick1906

You got it! Yes, it's a church. I should've chimed in earlier, but it's been a busy day. The guys are volunteers, so no one is getting paid. I can understand why they're a little gun shy in boosting because we've had issues in the past where the overall levels were WAY too loud. We brought the pro in, and he set everything for an automatic configuration. We have to pay him each time he comes in, so we don't want to do that every time I change amps/DI's. I've got a couple of amps I would like to use until I figure out which one works best in that environment which is why I made the original post.

I run wireless sometimes which is how I know amp #2 isn't as loud as the Tone Hammer. I'm just looking for a way to boost amp #2, #3, or whatever to the same levels without bringing the pro in and without freaking out the volunteers.

Any particular reason You didn't mention all this in the first place?

You have two options IMHO.

#1 You lower the output of the "hotter" pre to the same level as the "weaker" ones and reprogram the scene for your new level. A notch or a two of more gain should do it.

#2 You use a sub mixer if You want to swap the pres on the fly or a transparent signal booster if you don't need to change them in a hurry.

There's also option #3. That's to volunteer to learn the console to fine tune the sound. You already have the wireless so you can listen how the overall sound and balance fits the particular genre. Most of the time bassplayers are good soundpersons as the "guitarist syndrome" usually doesn't exist.

The added benefit is that You most probably "speak the same language" as the curch-goers and the men of cloth, and the professionals who come to "tune" the system possibly don't. Also You or any other volunteer who is brave enough to mess with the desk will have much, much more time to spend to get the things to sound just right than a pro who is on $100/hour or so.

Just save the current scene with a different name and go for it. As long as the original scene is saved untouched it just takes a push of a button to recall it.

Regards
Sam

[hbarcat]

So all you need to do is make sure that the output of your alternate amp is equal to the output of your first amp. Just get another DI box and run it inline from the amp/DI out of your alternate amp to the new DI box and then go to the board from there.

I do this all the time. I have a Presonus Blue Tube that I run from the output of any of my amp DI outs and then into a board. It's a simple matter of turning up or down the gain on the Presonus to get the levels I want on the board. Of course there are many other pres besides the Blue Tube, which is a stereo pre that runs about $230 You can find cheaper pres.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubeMPSTV3/
$76

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TubePRE/
$130

[OtterOnBass]

Warning: Back up your saved board data! Ours was deleted when the new guy pushed all the wrong buttons in the right order. Yes, we had it professionally done by the installers and lost it before the first performance. On the plus side, people tell us we sound better every week.

My advice on the volume: Talk to the sound guy and let him know that you want to keep the same level but use a different DI. Let him know that this is a serious need. Play through the old DI so that he can hear how the professional set it, then play with the new DI so that he can try to match it. Use tape to mark the original location so that he will be confident that he hasn't lost that information.

[RicPlaya]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

They are a godsend, believe you me. One of those digital boards will replace a good 2-3 large racks worth of EQ's and other effects. And on a lot of the shows I do, we have several singers come on and off and they all need different things, so it's really great to be able to punch up everyone's settings within a second. Of course, that doesn't mean you don't need to tweak it once it's set, and it's no excuse for not being able to move a fader.

To each is own. There is no right or wrong way to do this. I see two issues with this. Gain structure, if volumes of the instruments are different then when the board was programmed, the gain structure will be incorrect on the channels. Each room requires different volume levels. My second issue is channel EQ, each rooom has different characteristics which require some EQ'ing from the sound guy. I like control and access to individual channel EQ, what if the board was programmed in the studio and you played an outside gig? Am I wrong in my assumptions?

[fokof]

Originally Posted by rick1906

......The problem is that in doing so, I lose tonal flexibility. The EQ on the board is currently set flat. Since I'm more knowledgeable on EQ'ing bass, I usually EQ on the amp, and run my wireless unit during sound check to figure out what sounds good.

That's the problem with this.
1-An empty room and a full room sounds VERY different.
Even if you go in front to check your sound , when the people comes in , it doesn't mean anything anymore.
-There is a big difference between a good bass sound alone , and a good mix. Even if you setup the perfect bass sound , when the band kicks in , it doesn't mean ***** anymore.
-Also , is your bass amp on-stage the exact same thing as the PA ?
Is the PA a Thunderfunk?
If not , then what you hear through your amp is VERY different from what goin out in front , even flat.

All this IME.

[modulusman]

Originally Posted by RicPlaya

To each is own. There is no right or wrong way to do this. I see two issues with this. Gain structure, if volumes of the instruments are different then when the board was programmed, the gain structure will be incorrect on the channels. Each room requires different volume levels. My second issue is channel EQ, each rooom has different characteristics which require some EQ'ing from the sound guy. I like control and access to individual channel EQ, what if the board was programmed in the studio and you played an outside gig? Am I wrong in my assumptions?

The problem is the operator doesn't know what he is doing. I would assume some one came in and set the board for the room as far as EQ goes. That doesn't mean you can't adjust levels and EQs for the instruments and mics. If you know what you are doing digital boards are the way to go but there is a learning curve. My band was the back-up band for the Colgate country showdown and the soundman was using a yamaha digital board for monitors. It made his job much easier because he was dealing with a dozen different singers. During sound check he would get the monitor level set for each singer, assign them a number and then was able to re-call the scene at showtime by pushing a button or two.

[RicPlaya]

Those Yammie digital boards are bad to the bone! I really like Yammie live sound stuff..good effx too. When you use them like you discribed then yes, they are awesome. When someone sets it up in their studio and tries to plug and play...I'd tell that person to take the time to learn the art of live sound before doing that. Just my .02...