Novice amp and monitor questions

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by chondro776

Howdy.
Free advice is worth exactly that...and from me, probably even less....

Forget the monitor. Entirely. It isn't necessary, it is just complicating the issue.

Do I understand correctly that playing with a full band is somewhat of a new experience? If so (congrats first of all!) I think you may just not be used to 'where' the bass sits in the mix. I loose a lot of 'little' sounds (some attack, string noise, etc) in the mix, and I have more than enough power and only one guitarist and drummer to compete with. So maybe give it a little time for your ears to adjust before buying anything.

If however, you have a legit volume problem (which probably is at least partially responsible) then just go for a ballsy yet compact amp/cab. I would imagine you could get a micro head with plenty of umpf and a 15" cab that would be manageable for your ride.

IMO with something in the 300-400 watt range, and a quality 15 (maybe w/ a horn) you would have more than enough juice for your situation.

Also, just tilt your amp back.
Aim those waves at your ears.

Yes, playing with a full band is new. And, I agree that I'm probably not used to not hearing every little thing. But, I do think that my 100W, 12" combo isn't loud enough to compete with everything else. But, I will be waiting a little while before spending any money. I've just had one rehearsal and I really don't know many of the songs yet. So, I'll be only rehearsing a while longer.
I do have lots of questions about amps but will reserve those for the amp forum (after doing a lot of reading). Thanks again!

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by GregShadoan

Yeah, just a Y cord, or a line out of one of the amps, into the other. If you use the "big" amp, most likely you wont need the little one.

I'm resurrecting this thread with an update and a follow-up question. First off, I purchased an amp. I ended up with a Carvin BX1200 head and the BRX4.10 Neo cabinet. I've not used it a lot yet but so far, I like it.

Even though I probably won't need a separate monitor, I wanted to be prepared in case I decide to hook up my GK 112. I went to the local shop to buy a Y cable as you suggested and they didn't seem to have anything that looked right. The guy first showed me an A/B/Y box which seemed overkill. Then, he pointed me to what looked like a Y cable but two of the ends were labeled "tip" and "ring". This didn't sound like what I wanted.

I am worried about splitting the signal and losing signal level to each amp. I assume this will reduce loundness and perhaps create noise issues (the signal amplitude is lower so any noise will be more noticeable). I assume to avoid this I would need some sort of active box. I've also seen some posts about potential impedance issues but I didn't really understand.

Can you offer any help/advice?

Thanks.

[Nagrom]

Just get another regular shielded instrument cable. In the back of your amp is a socket called 'effects send'. Plug your new cable into that, and run it into the input of your other amp. That's it, done. But your new amp should be all you need on stage. You can also plug a microphone (XLR) cable into the built-in DI in the back and give that to your soundman to put into the PA.

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by Nagrom

Just get another regular shielded instrument cable. In the back of your amp is a socket called 'effects send'. Plug your new cable into that, and run it into the input of your other amp. That's it, done. But your new amp should be all you need on stage. You can also plug a microphone (XLR) cable into the built-in DI in the back and give that to your soundman to put into the PA.

Aha! That's awesome. I wondered about whether I could use an output of the Carvin. I even meant to ask this but forgot. So, I guess this means that the level of the effects send signal is similar to that of my bass, right?
And, I'm sure you're right that I won't need the monitor. But, this weekend will be the first time I'll be using the new amp with the entire band so I want to be prepared. If I can hear myself ok during the rehearsal/sound check, I won't bother hooking it up.

Thanks!

[Stumbo]

If you're standing up next to your amp/speaker, be sure to get far enough out front to hear it. If that's not possible, see if you can tilt it back far enough so that it's pointing to your ears. Also, it's well worth it to go wireless for rehearsals/sound checks to hear how you sound FOH compared to what you hear on stage.

Keep us informed on how it goes.

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by Stumbo

If you're standing up next to your amp/speaker, be sure to get far enough out front to hear it. If that's not possible, see if you can tilt it back far enough so that it's pointing to your ears. Also, it's well worth it to go wireless for rehearsals/sound checks to hear how you sound FOH compared to what you hear on stage.

Keep us informed on how it goes.

I'll be about 10-12 ft away from the speaker. I'm not sure if this is far enough or not. As for wireless, I wouldn't mind a set up like this. I will search for other threads on this (there must be many), but do you have any recommendations on a good but moderately priced wireless system?

[Stumbo]

http://www.talkbass.com/forum/search...earchid=672413

[roysloco]

I gig a lot with both secular and church bands. Aside from all the good technical advice you're getting here (the sound tech is your BEST friend!!), bear this in mind: nothing 'disappears' into a mix like a bass guitar ! Seriously - if you sound check a bass on it's own and think "Yep, nice!" there's a fair chance the bass stage sound will vanish or get very 'muddy' as soon as everyone starts playing. Even a lot of sound tech's don't understand that (esp. church sound techs IME).

I find that the bass always 'muddies' and loses all clarity in a stage mix unless I pump up the presence of higher mids. On it's own it might sound a bit over the top, but in a mix it's beaauuuutiful! You may not need much more volume, just more clarity - my Boss 7-band eq pedal is the most vital part of my live rig by far (regardless of what other eq's I'm plugged into)!!

[dancrocker]

Originally Posted by roysloco

I gig a lot with both secular and church bands. Aside from all the good technical advice you're getting here (the sound tech is your BEST friend!!), bear this in mind: nothing 'disappears' into a mix like a bass guitar ! Seriously - if you sound check a bass on it's own and think "Yep, nice!" there's a fair chance the bass stage sound will vanish or get very 'muddy' as soon as everyone starts playing. Even a lot of sound tech's don't understand that (esp. church sound techs IME).

I find that the bass always 'muddies' and loses all clarity in a stage mix unless I pump up the presence of higher mids. On it's own it might sound a bit over the top, but in a mix it's beaauuuutiful! You may not need much more volume, just more clarity - my Boss 7-band eq pedal is the most vital part of my live rig by far (regardless of what other eq's I'm plugged into)!!

Thanks for this. It's good info. I still need to find the right sound guy to work with. Unfortunately, I haven't found that person yet. One question:
My carvin amp has semi-parametric tone controls and a graphic EQ. For this case, which do you think I should use to boost the high mids? In general, I'm not clear on which of these controls to use when. Someone commented on one thread (I'm not sure if it was this one) that they reserve the graphic EQ for compensating for room acoustics and don't use it to adjust tone. It seems to me both of these controls do essentially the same thing. Perhaps this approach is more about not getting confused than about any real impact to the sound.

[roysloco]

I've used many different bass amps (I usually can't take one of my own to gigs because I'm travelling there on buses / trains / walking after work etc...) - I've always favoured graphic eq's for shaping my tone. Ultimately though, my Boss eq pedal has been amazing for me since I know what it sounds like, can experiment with my sound in my own time and find roughly a sound I love and can have it with me at any gig . I only need to 'tweak' the settings live (once I'd found that 'golden' in-the-mix sound) - that's between 'big' gigs with full backline, and little gigs with just pa. It's totally transformed the live experience for me after 5 years of gigging much between 4 secular bands (one pro touring band) and 3 different church bands!

On a sidenote, because it comes before my effects (distortion and occasionally chorus) it's always in the signal before it reaches the amp or the desk. That hasn't upset any tech's so far, in fact I'm often complimented by them on my sound.

I'd say experiment with your amp's eq's (and ignore opinion trolls - music's art : no rules, just guidelines. What works best for you is what's right!). Personally I've always found graphic eq's way better at shaping my tone than parametric EQ's, but maybe the advice on using parametrics to compensate for venue changes is right.

[roysloco]

Re: the right soundtech -> I've met a few who really shone for me, but on the whole they're usually just reasonable people trying to the best job they can (although sometimes church sound techs, who are usually very lovely, may just be 'filling a need' - whereas secular sound techs tend to be in it because they love live music ... and they're not scared of bass notes !).

You and the sound tech will get the best out of each other if you have at least a little rapport. When you get to a venue, find the sound tech and say hello! Get chatting before anyone's soundchecking, and learn a bit about them. Also find out what makes a sound tech's job easy (be ready on time, listen when they're asking you for things over the pa at soundcheck etc...) - stuff like that will greatly increase the tolerance for any 'oddness' you might want!

(Incidentally, I know I sound like I'm knocking church tech's, but my favourite tech so far was a church sound tech! )