Is this now common?

[jeffbrown]

Granted, I don't get out much. I haven't been to a concert in a while. Lack of funds plays a part, but that's another story not needed here & now.

I was gifted a ticket to see YES and Styx yesterday at Meadowbrook in NH. Being a YES fan from way back, I was psyched! I'd never heard Styx live, so I looked forward to hearing them as well.

Both bands performed up to expectations. That said, I was totally bummed by the house mix. It seemed like the kick drum for both bands, and Squire's and Down's bass pedals were pumped *very* overmuch. In fact, they overpowered the rest of the mix! I know volume is a part of the show, but this was way over the top. I mean, whenever the drummer hit the kick, the whole venue pulsed. And it had reverb cranked, too. Same with the pedals, but then it was a sustained vibration.... My Tshirt was fluttering in the breeze from this. My HAIR was vibrating, and I have short hair! I half expected to hear of a seismic event on the news that night.

I'm sure some folks feel a need to showcase their sound system. I'd be willing to bet the bands weren't aware of what they sounded like from the audience. Or maybe they were - I don't know. This effect sounded like S%!t.

Think of when a car with a big sub passes by you: all you might hear is the THUMP-THUMP-THUMP. That's sort of what this sounded like, times 100. I had a difficult time hearing Squire because of it, and maybe HIS mix was done poorly. Whatever. I didn't hear Styx's bassist AT ALL on some songs for the same reason. When the drummer wasn't into the kick (or the pedals weren't playing), I could hear the bass, at least most of the time.

What I'd like to know is if this is a new thing at shows? Or, should I chalk it up to a lousy sound crew? If this is now a common practice, I'll save future funds and just get the CD or download, which would be a real drag, because I love live music.

[SMILEYSIXX]

I go to lots of conerts, most of them metal, so high volume is natural but I've never had a kick drum feel like that. I've felt bass vibrations massage my pancreas, but drums were never bad.

[Jimbob Jones]

Nope, for some reason the sound at big gigs always seem to suck. I've seen Muse, Pendulum and the Stereophonics at big stadiums in the last couple of years, and the sound was always rubbish.

Too much kick, snare and lead vocal, and everything else takes a background roll.

[N.F.A.]

Went to the big jazz festival here in town last year and it was the same story. Mixed with very heavy bass. It was very muddy, reverby, etc. Very much like listening to the subs in someone's car. Everyone was autotuned too.

[BKBassDude]

I too have seen lots of shows recently, over many genres, where the kick was way too high in the mix and the bass was eqd too bass heavy to be heard properly. Live sound mixing appears to be a dying art.

[N.F.A.]

I was told by a local soundman that it is the new paradigm in live sound. I think that is how they are training them.

[5StringBlues]

All these bi-amped and tri-amped P.A. systems are not helping.You amplify all those super low frequencies and send them thru subs and don't run enough low mids and regular lows = mud.

[Silas Stingy]

What you are describing has been an annoyance of mine for years. I've found that the gigs that have sounded great have been the ones where the mix has been good between the Kick/Snare and Bass Guitar. With the overly big Kick drum you seem to loose so much musicality.

[Rockmusician]

The sound at most of the concerts that I have been to in the last 10 years has been pretty bad. In my opinion, it is because sound engineers are listening through headphones and never hear what the audience is hearing.

[SN2351]

I went to a club/pub place and the local band was mixed like that. Couldn't hear the bassist, guitarist was a bit weak too, but the drum kick was just ridiculous. Same for a lot of other club venues too, but I didn't think that would extend into a concert venue...

[tekdiver500ft]

A few of the older acts still have great sound at the concerts I've been to (KISS, Buckcherry, Aerosmith, ZZ Top, and Johnny Lang to name a few), but it does seem to be the latest thing to sound like $h!t. I think N.F.A. is close, but I suspect that it is the sound people expect after setting up their cars that way, and after listening to so much (c)rap. Another issue is that the people who set their cars up this way, and listen to it all the time, have permanently lost hearing in those low frequencies from the repetitive abuse. The thing is, though, that just because one genre of "music" sounds that way, doesn't mean that it all should; and just because one demographic thinks music should be a physically painful experience doesn't mean that everyone else feels that way; and just because some people can not hear those frequencies shouldn't mean that the rest of us have to feel them. If they were smart (a mighty big "if," granted), these sound men would realize that most people want to hear well-balanced music at a reasonable level.

I also wonder if part of the problem might be that people are recording these events on their iPods and other small devices. These devices don't record low frequencies well. When the sound engineers and/or artists see these videos on YouTube, they don't hear any bass/kick drum, so they turn up the mics on those instruments.

[notrt]

"I was told by a local soundman that it is the new paradigm in live sound. I think that is how they are training them."

_________________

That's just the way I see it. I hear more and more examples of terrible sounding mixes - everywhere - mixes that you'd routinely fire the soundman for 10+ years ago...but the kids seem to love it! Go figure!

I just don't get it; and that said, I expect that takes me beyond 'old school' to the land of geezerdom...

Oh well...there are still absolutes; sound is NOT subjective; a terrible mix is just...a terrible mix!

Richard Collins
playing out since '68...

[jaywa]

This verges on "bashing soundmen" but I do have to concur. Many live mixes these days, from small clubs to huge arena shows are huge kick drum, some vocals and very little else.

Interestingly, my cover band runs its sound from the stage and we get compliments all the time. Things like, "wow, I can hear what everyone is playing" and from bassists, "wow, I can actually hear your notes."

[Chopshonky]

Yes this is common. It is very common to mix live in such a way that you feel an unusual amount of pulse. I don't know why this has become the case except maybe that it helps to physically get the audience involved, and to make a band seem "big-time".

I am in favor of a move away from this, but I don't quite want a studio mixer taming my live gigs either! so you know... somewhere in the middle there must be a happy hunting ground?!

[jeffbrown]

I think I can concur with the statement Rockmusician made that the sound tech(s) listen to the mix *through headphones* and not to what the house is actually hearing. What the - ?! I have seen THAT phenomenon quite a bit, even starting back in the day. Maybe the guy was mixing for recording and to HE(( with the house. I was VERY tempted to fight my way to the board and give the mixer my opinion, but really wanted to stay and see the whole show... Also, the culture does seem to be that the subTHUMP is where its at. What a shame. I'll have to buy the new YES CD to hear what it was supposed to sound like.

I guess I shall despair of hearing a good mix very often anymore. At least the price was right. Sorry for my friend who bought the tickets, though, and he was as disappointed in the mix as I was.

It will become incumbent upon us bassists to be aware of this problem on our own shows. Be diligent! Be heard! Reverse the trend! Bassists UNITE!