P.A for startup band

DONZI97 · #1 01-15-2011, 08:14 AM

I am starting a Rock/Funk/Pop band, and so far we have no p.a, unless we find a drummer who has one. So I will probably be the money guy behind purchasing it. We will be playing small to medium bars and clubs, so how much power should i be looking at? How many channels on a mixer? Should we mic drums for small places? I have a fearful cab, so i am not to concerned about putting myself through a system in bars, but should i consider 12 in mains, or 15's? Subs? Should I be buying used or new? I know this has been asked before, but i am looking for recent opinions and examples from people with similar situations.

Thanks

lbwdog · #2 01-15-2011, 08:25 AM

I'd suggest one of the Carvin packages utilizing a pair of LS1503 (3-way) cabs, and maybe a couple of 12" monitors.
My band has six JBL EON II powered 15" cabs and a Carvin mixer that does a great job.

I personally don't prefer powered cabs since you must have AC power for each one, but many people do.

lbwdog · #3 01-15-2011, 08:30 AM

Only you know if you need to mic drums or not. If playing loudly, you could mic the kick and put one overhead.

Mixer channels: Ideally you should have enough for each singer, one for each instrument (just in case), and two for drums.

DONZI97 · #4 01-15-2011, 08:40 AM

I like the idea of the LS1503's, they are priced reasonable and same basic idea as my fearful cab, so i understand them. Anybody using these as mains that can chip in with reviews?

lelandcrooks · #5 01-15-2011, 08:42 AM

I've mixed many bands on my little 12 channel yamaha. 2 aux outs for monitors. Cheap and excelllent. Mic the kick. I have a set of drum mics, but almost always just the kick in small venues.

Power is dependent upon the speakers. Pick them first, then appropriate power to run them.

Thevolumedealer · #6 01-15-2011, 08:43 AM

I personally like to send everything through the PA. I own the PA in our band and did spend time researching different options. We have a Mackie system. SRM 450's (5) for monitors, a pair of Mackie SWA18's for the subs paired with Mackie 1521's for the FOH (on top of the subs). Our board is a Mackie Onyx 1640 (16 channels). Our band is a three piece. We mic the drums (4 Mics), guitar, bass, vocals X 2, and my Taurus pedal.

I like the convenience of the powered speakers. I don't have to hassle with crossovers and power amps etc...

hdracer · #7 01-15-2011, 08:52 AM

I was in the same situation as you. New band needing a PA and me being the only one in the band with any money. CL is your best friend for finding PA gear. It is full of stuff (seems every one thinks they are a DJ). I put together a real nice setup for around $600. 16 channel mixer, PV-1500 amp, compressor, rack, 2-15" speakers with horns, stands, 2-12" monitors, 2 Bata 58 mic's,2 SM-58's,3-SM-57's all with stands. I had to buy most of the cables new. It will work for now and we can always build off of it. It is very loud and clear.

modulusman · #8 01-15-2011, 09:11 AM

What is your budget? I would reccomend powered speakers since they will generally sound better with less work. A passive 16 channel mixer should be enough for most situations. The trick is to spend your money wisely so you are not having to upgrade constantly. This will save you money in the long run. If you go with subs then you can get by with 10-12 inch top cabs.

**nutdog** · #9 01-15-2011, 09:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hdracer

CL is your best friend for finding PA gear.

Good things recommended so far. The powered speaker route is nice but more expensive. To start and go cheap I would go powered mixer with 2 amps and as many channels as possible. 15s on mains and monitors if possible but 12s on monitors would do if it's just vocals.

Or a mixer and stereo amp, mains one side, monitors the other.

8-16 channels. There never seems to be enough, but 6 would work if you only mic vocals and kick. But sooner or later you plug in acoustic, keys, backing vocals...

The thing I would submit is high volume is overrated at small clubs. You may find you don't need much power.

But I really like having a sub and micing the kick even if the rest of the band isn't loud. If you can't afford a sub now you can add an amp and sub or powered sub later. Powered sub usually means no crossover necessary.

Yamaha club IV or V 15 inch speakers are often available used for $400/pair and sound great. Their mixers and powered mixers are also good sounding at good prices used. I got a 16 channel board (12xlr) for $115 on CL with road case.

And you can probably rent yourself out as a sound guy for more than you can charge for a band.

Edit: Powered stuff is light and setup is easier. JBL eon 15s can be found for $700/pair or so with stands. Also easy to expand.

DONZI97 · #10 01-15-2011, 09:37 AM

Thanks for the responses!

I probably would like to keep price within reason, maybe $1500-1800 for something like the new carvin package, but I would defiantly be fine with a CL system for under a grand, especially being my first p.a, and like the idea of being to upgrade components later. I do think a 12-16 channel mixer is the way to go though.

treekiller · #11 01-15-2011, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbwdog

I'd suggest one of the Carvin packages utilizing a pair of LS1503 (3-way) cabs, and maybe a couple of 12" monitors.
My band has six JBL EON II powered 15" cabs and a Carvin mixer that does a great job.

I personally don't prefer powered cabs since you must have AC power for each one, but many people do.

Not a bad way to go, Carvin PA gear is pretty good and you can pick it up fairly cheap used. Their power amps are great! QSC also makes decent amps. I'd say a 16ch passive mixer is a about right, you will expand as you go along. We have 2 powered JBL EON II 15's that we use in combination with some old Peavey 18" subs FOH. We use 2 Kustom 2x15" cabs as sidefills and have 4 wedge monitors. We have no problem being heard in small to medium venues.
Watch craigslist, etc. and you can find some pretty good deals on used gear.

unbridled · #12 01-15-2011, 09:57 AM

That's a decent budget for your first rig. Pick the speakers first and go with some pretty beefy mains that have good bass response so you don't have to go with subs until the money starts coming in. Then, you're looking for a mixer that is expandable so you can add effects or change up power amps if you need to. Generally, this means an unpowered mixer, but some of the Carvin and other powered mixers allow for expandability. Make sure you take monitors into consideration. You want AT LEAST two, but more is generally better. At first, and with limited money available, look at another PA system you can use for monitors and also for quick rehearsals so you don't have to pack the big one. Instead of a wedge for the drum monitor, look for another decent main speaker you can set right beside him and blast.

The 3 way mains are good, but also look at the "quasi 3-way" that are essentially a two way speaker with 2 15s for the bottoms.

If you decide subs are in order, remember you don't have to get two right off the bat. Sub frequencies are multi-directional so, you can get by with one at first.

Don't skimp on the mic budget. Good quality mics for vocals and kick will save you heartache and sound better in the long run.

Nagrom · #13 01-15-2011, 11:09 AM

I would start with powered speakers and a mixer that has a built-in effects unit.
I prefer 15" but 12's are ok too.

If you get passive speakers and a powered mixer than upgrading is less feasible and more dough later on. Your powered speakers could easily be used as extra monitors in a larger rig, etc. but a powered mixer without enough power or strips is almost starting over again.

Make sure you get decent cords: AC, mic, and spkr as needed, and some sort of packing container to keep them somewhat organized.

JohnMCA72 · #14 01-15-2011, 12:55 PM

+ on the powered speakers. Besides being easy to work with, they're flexible & can scale to the size of the gig. As your gigs get larger, it's easy to add to the rig or leave some home for a smaller one. What's FOH at one gig might be used as monitors for another. You don't have to worry about impedance matching or getting the right amps for the speakers because that's already done for you.

That works well with the idea of a non-powered (i.e. doesn't have power amps to drive speakers) mixer. That means money that doesn't need to be spent or weight that doesn't have to be carried & what you get now could go a long way. I'd get as many channels as you can afford. You can never have too many channels. Channel strips are like closet space: You can always find something to fill them up! I always figure as a rule of thumb, $100 per channel for a used medium format analog mixer & there are often better deals to be found. Digital is more expensive, but if you factor in all the onboard effects, etc. they can actually cost less than the equivalent gear outboard if you have the money to spend up front.

DONZI97 · #15 01-15-2011, 06:13 PM

Once again thanks for the response, anybody have any thoughts on this power amp? enough wattage to run a couple of mains and monitors?

Carvin DCM1540L Power Amp

modulusman · #16 01-15-2011, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DONZI97

Once again thanks for the response, anybody have any thoughts on this power amp? enough wattage to run a couple of mains and monitors?

Carvin DCM1540L Power Amp

Nice to see you following peoples advice.

Most the posters either are using powered speakers or reccomend them. Lelandcrooks also had a good suggestion pick your speakers first then power amp which it looks like you also are going to ignore.

DONZI97 · #17 01-15-2011, 06:36 PM

If you are not going to contribute in a postive matter, don't contribute. Yes, I am aware of the suggestions, but i am looking at all the options, and I have other uses for a power amp.....no need to assume I am not heeding anyones advice. So no reason to be a jerk dude.

Frankjohnson · #18 01-15-2011, 06:56 PM

I pieced together a system, from inexpensive finds, but if I had a chance to buy a package deal, I would do it.

Subs are good but you won't need them up front. Mains, monitors, mixer/amp, stands, cables, CART, and something to carry cables and mics in. ALSO, a word of advice - Be sure if the band is helping you , set up a system of setup/teardown/cable care and handling that helps you make it easy, does not damage your equipment and makes the next setup easy.

We use a QSC GX5 for mains and mons. I chain them, and have MORE than enough power. we have a MUCH larger system, but in 90% of the rooms, we use this and it is fine, with an EQ, BBE and PV10 non powered mixer. I use a set of JBL JRX112M monitors for vocal tops, and older Yamaha 10" monitors, because I had them for a small gig I did a while back. The drivers were replaced this past year and sound GREAT.

I carry the Whole PA, My bass rig, a guitar rig in my Scion XB. with on of those lightweight Carvin systems, I would be set, and probably have more flexibility.
May add subs, But I have no way to carry them - so who knows.

Before anyone says that won't work, i have been using it for the past year, about one gig a week avg. about 500 watts per channel at 4 ohm should be good - a little more is better - for head room. Less will leave you less than satisfied I believe. You can usually add power amps if you need to.

or powered subs, etc.

My $ 0.02

mcapote · #19 01-15-2011, 07:24 PM

being someone that recently started with a PA system ( first cover band my original bands always played places with sound) I can tell you from the prospective of playing in a cover band in bars;

If i were to do it all over again I would go for atleast a 20 channel mixer (my 14 isnt enough as a 4 piece running drums, guitar, bass, and 4 vocal mics) I would probably go 18" subs and dual 15 mains with atleast 2 monitors like running off a few crown XTIs.

I went the cheaper piece meal and found the ceiling getting hit awfully quick when we tried to play a couple bars with that had weird shapes inside. we are running now 2 fearful 15subs as subwoofers off my XTI2000(which use to be my bass amp), 2 mackie TH-15a powered as mains and a couple cheap behringer 12" monitors off an old fender solidstate my guitarist had laying around into a Peavey PV14USB. it does what it needs to i guess but to play some bars we would need to double up and get 4 mains, so in hind site I would of been better off making everyone hold up save more money up front and do on a JBL or Carvin Frenzy. Eventually I see us using this as the garage gear and having to rebuy again.

anyways just my thoughts on it as someone who did what your doing a few months ago.

DONZI97 · #20 01-15-2011, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcapote

being someone that recently started with a PA system ( first cover band my original bands always played places with sound) I can tell you from the prospective of playing in a cover band in bars;

If i were to do it all over again I would go for atleast a 20 channel mixer (my 14 isnt enough as a 4 piece running drums, guitar, bass, and 4 vocal mics) I would probably go 18" subs and dual 15 mains with atleast 2 monitors like running off a few crown XTIs.

I went the cheaper piece meal and found the ceiling getting hit awfully quick when we tried to play a couple bars with that had weird shapes inside. we are running now 2 fearful 15subs as subwoofers off my XTI2000(which use to be my bass amp), 2 mackie TH-15a powered as mains and a couple cheap behringer 12" monitors off an old fender solidstate my guitarist had laying around into a Peavey PV14USB. it does what it needs to i guess but to play some bars we would need to double up and get 4 mains, so in hind site I would of been better off making everyone hold up save more money up front and do on a JBL or Carvin Frenzy. Eventually I see us using this as the garage gear and having to rebuy again.

anyways just my thoughts on it as someone who did what your doing a few months ago.

Thanks! I also was thinking about the fearful subs in the future(i know modulusman, that is going against everyones advice) since i have done a 15/6 build and have all this extra duratex laying around.